Another killed in a Honda with Takata airbag

[edhackett]

Originally Posted By: Kestas

The last I heard, the problem was attributed to the mechanisms corroding, and that it was a problem prevalent in the southern (humid) states. This infers that the problem is with older cars. The older cars should get priority over a 2014 CRV, and the CRV should still be safe from the shrapnel problem for a while. Is this corrosion story still true? My spidey senses tell me not to trust that explanation.

Quote:

UPDATE 2/23/2016, 2:15 p.m.: A group of 10 carmakers known as the Independent Testing Coalition hired a company called Orbital ATK (which works with rocket propulsion-systems) to conduct its own tests of suspect Takata airbag inflators. The conclusions, according to Automotive News, are that “it was the combination of these three factors—the use of ammonium nitrate, the construction of Takata’s inflator assembly, and the exposure to heat and humidity—that made the inflators vulnerable to rupture.” These results are consistent with Takata’s internal testing as well as testing by the Fraunhofer Group.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/massive-tak...ected-vehicles/ The article above gives a full history of the problem and a complete list of the cars affected. It's a worthwhile read if you think or know you have a vehicle that may at risk. Poor welds were mentioned in the article, but the biggest problem appears to be the ammonium nitrate propellant used. It changes properties with exposure to heat and moisture over time. There was a batch of 2400 pistol/shotgun powder that did this also. I had loaded a bunch of .44 Magnum rounds at the classic(hot) load of 22 grains. I only shot a few of these at a time, and over the years they went from just fine to sticking in the chambers. I tossed the remaining 100 or so rounds as they were now clearly developing pressures far in excess of when the powder was fresh. Honda is likely stepping up with the rentals as they are the most invested. They have the most vehicles involved and to date, 10 of the 11 killed by the airbags have been in Honda vehicles. The other was a Ford Ranger. Ed

 

[GiveMeAVowel]

Originally Posted By: Kestas

Air bags are more powerful in the US than in Europe. In the US, air bags are designed to restrain an unbelted person. In Europe, they assume the person is belted, and the air bag is considered a "face bag," which is less powerful. (Remember the problem of low speed accidents killing unbelted children?) The seat belt does a superior job of restraining a person, and can work in multiple impact events during an accident.

And also a major reason why the European design is a LOT safer over all. The face bag does just the job it was intended to be best at, and also the charge is smaller and less powerful. The US should apply the same "face bag" system, especially now that it is mandatory in all states to buckle up.

 

[hpb]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

You can set them off just pounding around in a field

I don't think so.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: hpb

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

You can set them off just pounding around in a field

I don't think so.

Well, you have to bottom out the front enough to catch on the ground a bit. My neighbor did it and is not eager to repeat it...

 

[VNTS]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Originally Posted By: R2d2

Here's the Honda corporate link, they are offering free rentals. Honda rental takata airbag

Honda offered free rental or loaner almost a year ago. Why not take advantage of the offer ? The free rental and loaner costs Honda hundreds million dollar, they are willing to spend that much to avoid another fatality and bad press. Other automakers with defective Takata airbag don't offer similar service(free rental) and nobody seems to care.

Co worker's son did just that and Honda store told him to pound sand LOL If every impacted Honda owner insisted on a free rental until there are enough bags in the supply chain, Thrifty, Hertz etc wouldn't have enough cars.

 

[raytseng]

Originally Posted By: VNTS

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Originally Posted By: R2d2

Here's the Honda corporate link, they are offering free rentals. Honda rental takata airbag

Honda offered free rental or loaner almost a year ago. Why not take advantage of the offer ? The free rental and loaner costs Honda hundreds million dollar, they are willing to spend that much to avoid another fatality and bad press. Other automakers with defective Takata airbag don't offer similar service(free rental) and nobody seems to care.

Co worker's son did just that and Honda store told him to pound sand LOL If every impacted Honda owner insisted on a free rental until there are enough bags in the supply chain, Thrifty, Hertz etc wouldn't have enough cars.

Is there more to that story? e.g. did the son receive a recall letter in hand? or just walked in even though hadn't been notified yet? Cause I think the dealer should be complying with the letter, or son didn't approach this right. If they run out of rentals, then they have to start giving out loaners and Honda corp will be paying the dealer to "buy" the car.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: raytseng

Originally Posted By: VNTS

Co worker's son did just that and Honda store told him to pound sand LOL If every impacted Honda owner insisted on a free rental until there are enough bags in the supply chain, Thrifty, Hertz etc wouldn't have enough cars.

Is there more to that story? e.g. did the son receive a recall letter in hand? or just walked in even though hadn't been notified yet? Cause I think the dealer should be complying with the letter, or son didn't approach this right. If they run out of rentals, then they have to start giving out loaners and Honda corp will be paying the dealer to "buy" the car.

Dealer(s) don't pay for rentals or loaners, Honda of America is paying for all costs associate with Takata airbag recall. Why Honda dealer refuse loaner or rental ? Something isn't right with this story.

 

[xfactor9]

If you want to take your chances, you can pull the fuse and sit as far back as possible. The airbag's main purpose is to save the driver from hitting the steering wheel. This advice won't be practical for very short drivers, but if you're tall enough, it'd lessen the risk of not having an airbag especially in a low-impact collision

 

[wtd]

My fiancee's 07 Mustang GT and my 14 Mustang GT are both affected by this recall. She took her car in recently to get a partial fix done until the parts for the full fix are available. My car still has not had anything with the airbags fixed since there are still no parts available.

 

[DoubleWasp]

The oversight is completely my fault, but I just discovered that both of my Rams have incomplete recalls for airbags. One of them has the airbag fuses pulled back from the fuse panel, so I guess the previous owner knew what was going on. Edit: They're the darned Takata bags alright. Both going to dealer tomorrow.

 

[supton]

Brother says he never received a recall notice

Quote:

The brother of a 17-year-old Texas girl who was killed last week when an exploding Takata airbag sent a shard of metal into her neck said he never received a recall notice about his 2002 Honda Civic. ... Honda spokesman Matt Sloustcher said the company mailed multiple notices to owners of the vehicle, including the current registered owner. Sloustcher wouldn't say if one was sent to the Hanif family, but he noted that the Civic had a salvage title. Hanif said couldn't remember when or from whom he purchased the vehicle.

Not sure how anyone could have missed this recall, but I guess it can happen. I don't get how one doesn't keep bill of sale, or the other paperwork. I guess not everyone is BITOG retentive.

 

[bdcardinal]

One of the, arguably, good things the DMV does here is prevent a car from having the registration renewed if there is an open safety recall. The downside is a situation like mine where parts aren't available yet. One of the techs at the BMW dealer across the street wants to roll his leased M3 into a purchase. However the DMV will not process the change in status because there is an open recall with no parts available.

 

[Kamele0N]

Update... http://blog.caranddriver.com/massive-tak...-vehicles/#list

 

[bunnspecial]

Originally Posted By: Kestas

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

In a severe accident, your odds are better with the air bag, but I wonder what percentage of air bag deployments actually save a life? You can set them off just pounding around in a field, and the car is essentially undamaged. That tells me there's lot of small accidents where the bags go off only to prevent minor injury. I think if I were an urban driver only, I might be tempted to pull the fuse as the odds of high speed accident are a bit lower, but I'd have to do some more research.

Here are some bits of information I've learned over the years. Air bags are more powerful in the US than in Europe. In the US, air bags are designed to restrain an unbelted person. In Europe, they assume the person is belted, and the air bag is considered a "face bag," which is less powerful. (Remember the problem of low speed accidents killing unbelted children?) The seat belt does a superior job of restraining a person, and can work in multiple impact events during an accident. The air bag is superior in preventing hyperextension of the neck, which is what used to happen in the old days before air bags. But it can only protect once, which is a problem if you get into a "bumper car" type of accident. Studies have shown from questionnaires to people that experienced crashes, that just as many people complained their air bag when off when they didn't think it should go off, as people who didn't have their air bag go off when they thought it should have gone off. This indicates the designers hit the sweet spot of air bag deployment threshold.

Interestingly enough, I rear ended another car at fairly low speed a week and a half ago(5 car total pile up). The driver seat belt pre-tensioner went off, which was fine and IMO an appropriate action in the accident. What I'm not so sure about, though, was that bag deployed for the(unoccupied) passenger seat(and of course took out the windshield in the process). Since the accident, I've driven the car, although something in the cooling system is broken so it can't be driven a great distance. Had it not been for the airbag going off, I'd have slapped on a junkyard bumper cover and hood(plus whatever other broken plastic bits and pieces there are) and had them painted and probably been out a couple hundred dollars to have the car back on the road and looking good. Granted I'd need a new driver seatbelt assembly, but that's also not a terrible thing to deal with. The airbag means that in addition to the bag itself, I'm going to need a dashboard and windshield. The dashboard probably won't be expensive, but I dread pulling it out at the junk yard, getting it out of my car, and then getting the replacement back in without breaking something. What would have been a quick and easy repair now has me considering junking the car due to the airbag replacement. The low value of a 13 year old car means that I was only carrying liability, although it most certainly would have been a total had I not been at fault or had full coverage. Fortunately, my car did not have the affected Takata bag. Ford alerted my dad of the recall on the 2010 MKZ I just bought from him well over a year ago, but every time he's made an appointment it has been cancelled due to lack of parts. It's all good and well to say "fix it" but the parts aren't available to fix all the cars out there. In any case, I'd

 

[ms21043]

So what about junkyard parts? Someone gets into an accident with their post recall vehicle and sets off the airbags. The repair shop gets some junkyard airbags and uses them to repair the vehicle. Who's to know what the airbags status is then? The vin will show the recall has been done.

 

[CKN]

If people don't take their cars in for the fix-who's fault is that? As far as not receiving a recall notice-OK maybe. But you would have to be living in a cave not to know your car was affected. When this first came to the surface. It WAS PUBLICIZED on local and national news shows-both on radio and T.V. as well as online sources. It was even on my AOL homepage news-and I'm one of the few left who has that on my homepage sign on. I find it very hard to believe that there are people out there that didn't have access to at least one of the three.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: ms21043

So what about junkyard parts? Someone gets into an accident with their post recall vehicle and sets off the airbags. The repair shop gets some junkyard airbags and uses them to repair the vehicle. Who's to know what the airbags status is then? The vin will show the recall has been done.

There are serial numbers on every airbag that we are installing. Those numbers are recorded on the repair order and are submitted when the claim is made with the manufacturer, which would be Ford or Mazda for me. If the theoretical situation you said happened, those numbers would not match. So anyone investigating would know something is amiss.

 

[bunnspecial]

Originally Posted By: CKN

If people don't take their cars in for the fix-who's fault is that? As far as not receiving a recall notice-OK maybe. But you would have to be living in a cave not to know your car was affected. When this first came to the surface. It WAS PUBLICIZED on local and national news shows-both on radio and T.V. as well as online sources. It was even on my AOL homepage news-and I'm one of the few left who has that on my homepage sign on. I find it very hard to believe that there are people out there that didn't have access to at least one of the three.

As I and several others have said, knowing about the recall doesn't make a bit of difference if the manufacturer doesn't have the parts to fix it. It's been an across-the-board issue for every single affected maker, whether Japanese, German, Korean, or American(and any other affected ones I'm leaving out). I've know about the recall on the car I'm driving now for well over a year, but the dealership can't get replacement bags to fix it. So, I'll turn the question around-if the owner makes a good faith attempt to have the recall repaired but has an accident before it can be done(remember,the clock is ticking at over a year for me) who is at fault?

 

[Touring5]

Originally Posted By: bunnspecial

... So, I'll turn the question around-if the owner makes a good faith attempt to have the recall repaired but has an accident before it can be done(remember,the clock is ticking at over a year for me) who is at fault?

I've wondered the same. I'm approaching two years from getting the notice, but the dealer continues to say they don't know when they will be able to fix my car. It really isn't a big issue for me, since I'm almost always the only person in the car. But what happens if I do have a passenger? Am I required to make them sit in the back seat? Inform them and have us both take the chance? Am I liable in the event of a failure since I'm aware of the recall? This whole fiasco has been poorly managed.

 

[KrisZ]

You know where we're heading when the book was thrown at VW for emissions, but it's business as usual when people are dying.