Another killed in a Honda with Takata airbag
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Originally Posted By: pottymouth
Originally Posted By: VNTS
I dont understand why Honda, Toyota and others who have these bags dont disable the air bags, or tell the customers here is the fuse in the box to pull which will disable the air bag.
I was reading in another story Toyota is putting "Dont sit here" decals on the passanger side for the pass side air bag, but they say it could be months before they get enough spares to replace.
Article also ripped Honda, claiming they and Takata knew back in 2004 there was a problem and covered it up until 2013.
Guess Honda corp management is as corrupt as everyone else, hope CR takes note!
The vast majority of the affected airbags that have deployed, have done so with no shrapnel related injuries. It's probably safe to assume that injury and death have been avoided or reduced in at least some of these cases due to proper inflation of the bags. What do you suppose would happen if the automakers had disabled those airbags?
While taking a quick look to see if my current fleet is impacted I came across this:
http://blog.caranddriver.com/toyota-adds-1-37-million-cars-trucks-and-suvs-to-takata-airbag-recall/
Quote:
Driver’s-side airbags in 2003–2007 Toyota Corolla and Matrix models (plus the Pontiac Vibe, a twin to the Matrix), as well as 2004–2007 Honda Accord models, recorded the highest failure rates tested by Takata thus far, at 2.16 percent.
Originally Posted By: VNTS
I dont understand why Honda, Toyota and others who have these bags dont disable the air bags, or tell the customers here is the fuse in the box to pull which will disable the air bag.
I was reading in another story Toyota is putting "Dont sit here" decals on the passanger side for the pass side air bag, but they say it could be months before they get enough spares to replace.
Article also ripped Honda, claiming they and Takata knew back in 2004 there was a problem and covered it up until 2013.
Guess Honda corp management is as corrupt as everyone else, hope CR takes note!
The vast majority of the affected airbags that have deployed, have done so with no shrapnel related injuries. It's probably safe to assume that injury and death have been avoided or reduced in at least some of these cases due to proper inflation of the bags. What do you suppose would happen if the automakers had disabled those airbags?
While taking a quick look to see if my current fleet is impacted I came across this:
http://blog.caranddriver.com/toyota-adds-1-37-million-cars-trucks-and-suvs-to-takata-airbag-recall/
Quote:
Driver’s-side airbags in 2003–2007 Toyota Corolla and Matrix models (plus the Pontiac Vibe, a twin to the Matrix), as well as 2004–2007 Honda Accord models, recorded the highest failure rates tested by Takata thus far, at 2.16 percent.
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
The vast majority of the affected airbags that have deployed, have done so with no shrapnel related injuries. It's probably safe to assume that injury and death have been avoided or reduced in at least some of these cases due to proper inflation of the bags. What do you suppose would happen if the automakers had disabled those airbags?
You sign a waiver and they disable the air bag until repalcements are available, or perhaps Honda gives you a free loaner until parts are available? Or Honda shows you the fuse to pull and lets you disable the bag!
Bottom line is Honda knew about the high defect rate and covered it up, they also knew takata had very poor traceabilty of the air bags in both their own manufacturing process and OEM, ie didnt know which bags were built on which equipment, people and worst off were installed in what cars. This shows Honda doesnt really have a very good quality control.
Co-worker's son has a 14 CRV and the wife insisted they buy it, now she doesnt want to drive it! I told him find out which fuse power the bag and pull it. was told it might be 2-6 months before they receive enough parts to affect the recall LOL
The vast majority of the affected airbags that have deployed, have done so with no shrapnel related injuries. It's probably safe to assume that injury and death have been avoided or reduced in at least some of these cases due to proper inflation of the bags. What do you suppose would happen if the automakers had disabled those airbags?
You sign a waiver and they disable the air bag until repalcements are available, or perhaps Honda gives you a free loaner until parts are available? Or Honda shows you the fuse to pull and lets you disable the bag!
Bottom line is Honda knew about the high defect rate and covered it up, they also knew takata had very poor traceabilty of the air bags in both their own manufacturing process and OEM, ie didnt know which bags were built on which equipment, people and worst off were installed in what cars. This shows Honda doesnt really have a very good quality control.
Co-worker's son has a 14 CRV and the wife insisted they buy it, now she doesnt want to drive it! I told him find out which fuse power the bag and pull it. was told it might be 2-6 months before they receive enough parts to affect the recall LOL
Honda knew, I wonder if they'll get punished like GM did with the ignition switches? They should....
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
So, did the girl receive a recall notice or not?
I received my recall notice almost a year ago. But what good does it do me? There are no parts available to perform this recall and there won't be for a while.
In the article Honda says they tried and tried to contact the owner. It was recalled 5 years ago. I'm going to assume, and the article hints that the parts were available within the last 5 years.
Assuming the parts were available and Honda made a sufficient effort to contact the owner at what point does their liability end? You cant force someone to get a recall.
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
So, did the girl receive a recall notice or not?
I received my recall notice almost a year ago. But what good does it do me? There are no parts available to perform this recall and there won't be for a while.
In the article Honda says they tried and tried to contact the owner. It was recalled 5 years ago. I'm going to assume, and the article hints that the parts were available within the last 5 years.
Assuming the parts were available and Honda made a sufficient effort to contact the owner at what point does their liability end? You cant force someone to get a recall.
Exactly.
My sister owns a 2005 Civic and my mom owns a 2011 Fit. Both have a recall for the airbag. Only the Civic has had the recall done, and that was after months of waiting for the parts. Had she gotten in an accident during that time, the airbag still could have injured her regardless if she knew about the recall or not.
I'm wondering if it would be better to disable the airbags until fixed. We all drove cars without airbags for years. What's the point of having an airbag if it shoots metal at your neck?
I'm wondering if there are other vehicles with Takata airbags that haven't surfaced yet. The Ford Ranger airbags only became known a few months ago.
My sister owns a 2005 Civic and my mom owns a 2011 Fit. Both have a recall for the airbag. Only the Civic has had the recall done, and that was after months of waiting for the parts. Had she gotten in an accident during that time, the airbag still could have injured her regardless if she knew about the recall or not.
I'm wondering if it would be better to disable the airbags until fixed. We all drove cars without airbags for years. What's the point of having an airbag if it shoots metal at your neck?
I'm wondering if there are other vehicles with Takata airbags that haven't surfaced yet. The Ford Ranger airbags only became known a few months ago.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
So is it some of the Civics that are affected or all of them in that year range?
If I had an affected car, I would probably go to the junk yard, get some VIN numbers and see if there's a car with a non-defective air bag and put it in my car. But that still leaves the passenger airbag...
If I had an affected car, I would probably go to the junk yard, get some VIN numbers and see if there's a car with a non-defective air bag and put it in my car. But that still leaves the passenger airbag...
Originally Posted By: VNTS
I dont understand why Honda, Toyota and others who have these bags dont disable the air bags, or tell the customers here is the fuse in the box to pull which will disable the air bag.
I was reading in another story Toyota is putting "Dont sit here" decals on the passanger side for the pass side air bag, but they say it could be months before they get enough spares to replace.
Article also ripped Honda, claiming they and Takata knew back in 2004 there was a problem and covered it up until 2013.
Guess Honda corp management is as corrupt as everyone else, hope CR takes note!
You are FAR more likely to be injured by the airbag not going off at all than you are by this recall. Even if you have a recalled vehicle and the airbags deployed, you will MOST LIKELY not get metal shrapnel. My Ranger is recalled for this, and I was in an accident 4 years ago and the airbags deployed. No metal shrapnel at all.
I dont understand why Honda, Toyota and others who have these bags dont disable the air bags, or tell the customers here is the fuse in the box to pull which will disable the air bag.
I was reading in another story Toyota is putting "Dont sit here" decals on the passanger side for the pass side air bag, but they say it could be months before they get enough spares to replace.
Article also ripped Honda, claiming they and Takata knew back in 2004 there was a problem and covered it up until 2013.
Guess Honda corp management is as corrupt as everyone else, hope CR takes note!
You are FAR more likely to be injured by the airbag not going off at all than you are by this recall. Even if you have a recalled vehicle and the airbags deployed, you will MOST LIKELY not get metal shrapnel. My Ranger is recalled for this, and I was in an accident 4 years ago and the airbags deployed. No metal shrapnel at all.
Originally Posted By: VNTS
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
The vast majority of the affected airbags that have deployed, have done so with no shrapnel related injuries. It's probably safe to assume that injury and death have been avoided or reduced in at least some of these cases due to proper inflation of the bags. What do you suppose would happen if the automakers had disabled those airbags?
You sign a waiver and they disable the air bag until repalcements are available, or perhaps Honda gives you a free loaner until parts are available? Or Honda shows you the fuse to pull and lets you disable the bag!
Bottom line is Honda knew about the high defect rate and covered it up, they also knew takata had very poor traceabilty of the air bags in both their own manufacturing process and OEM, ie didnt know which bags were built on which equipment, people and worst off were installed in what cars. This shows Honda doesnt really have a very good quality control.
Co-worker's son has a 14 CRV and the wife insisted they buy it, now she doesnt want to drive it! I told him find out which fuse power the bag and pull it. was told it might be 2-6 months before they receive enough parts to affect the recall LOL
just unhook the driver's airbag from the loom, so the rest and the seat belt tensioners are operative.
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
The vast majority of the affected airbags that have deployed, have done so with no shrapnel related injuries. It's probably safe to assume that injury and death have been avoided or reduced in at least some of these cases due to proper inflation of the bags. What do you suppose would happen if the automakers had disabled those airbags?
You sign a waiver and they disable the air bag until repalcements are available, or perhaps Honda gives you a free loaner until parts are available? Or Honda shows you the fuse to pull and lets you disable the bag!
Bottom line is Honda knew about the high defect rate and covered it up, they also knew takata had very poor traceabilty of the air bags in both their own manufacturing process and OEM, ie didnt know which bags were built on which equipment, people and worst off were installed in what cars. This shows Honda doesnt really have a very good quality control.
Co-worker's son has a 14 CRV and the wife insisted they buy it, now she doesnt want to drive it! I told him find out which fuse power the bag and pull it. was told it might be 2-6 months before they receive enough parts to affect the recall LOL
just unhook the driver's airbag from the loom, so the rest and the seat belt tensioners are operative.
Kestas
Staff member
Originally Posted By: VNTS
Co-worker's son has a 14 CRV and the wife insisted they buy it, now she doesnt want to drive it! I told him find out which fuse power the bag and pull it. was told it might be 2-6 months before they receive enough parts to affect the recall LOL
The last I heard, the problem was attributed to the mechanisms corroding, and that it was a problem prevalent in the southern (humid) states. This infers that the problem is with older cars. The older cars should get priority over a 2014 CRV, and the CRV should still be safe from the shrapnel problem for a while. Is this corrosion story still true? My spidey senses tell me not to trust that explanation.
Co-worker's son has a 14 CRV and the wife insisted they buy it, now she doesnt want to drive it! I told him find out which fuse power the bag and pull it. was told it might be 2-6 months before they receive enough parts to affect the recall LOL
The last I heard, the problem was attributed to the mechanisms corroding, and that it was a problem prevalent in the southern (humid) states. This infers that the problem is with older cars. The older cars should get priority over a 2014 CRV, and the CRV should still be safe from the shrapnel problem for a while. Is this corrosion story still true? My spidey senses tell me not to trust that explanation.
Originally Posted By: exranger06
You are FAR more likely to be injured by the airbag not going off at all than you are by this recall. Even if you have a recalled vehicle and the airbags deployed, you will MOST LIKELY not get metal shrapnel. My Ranger is recalled for this, and I was in an accident 4 years ago and the airbags deployed. No metal shrapnel at all.
In a severe accident, your odds are better with the air bag, but I wonder what percentage of air bag deployments actually save a life?
You can set them off just pounding around in a field, and the car is essentially undamaged. That tells me there's lot of small accidents where the bags go off only to prevent minor injury.
I think if I were an urban driver only, I might be tempted to pull the fuse as the odds of high speed accident are a bit lower, but I'd have to do some more research.
You are FAR more likely to be injured by the airbag not going off at all than you are by this recall. Even if you have a recalled vehicle and the airbags deployed, you will MOST LIKELY not get metal shrapnel. My Ranger is recalled for this, and I was in an accident 4 years ago and the airbags deployed. No metal shrapnel at all.
In a severe accident, your odds are better with the air bag, but I wonder what percentage of air bag deployments actually save a life?
You can set them off just pounding around in a field, and the car is essentially undamaged. That tells me there's lot of small accidents where the bags go off only to prevent minor injury.
I think if I were an urban driver only, I might be tempted to pull the fuse as the odds of high speed accident are a bit lower, but I'd have to do some more research.
Originally Posted By: R2d2
Here's the Honda corporate link, they are offering free rentals.
Honda rental takata airbag
Honda offered free rental or loaner almost a year ago. Why not take advantage of the offer ?
The free rental and loaner costs Honda hundreds million dollar, they are willing to spend that much to avoid another fatality and bad press.
Other automakers with defective Takata airbag don't offer similar service(free rental) and nobody seems to care.
Here's the Honda corporate link, they are offering free rentals.
Honda rental takata airbag
Honda offered free rental or loaner almost a year ago. Why not take advantage of the offer ?
The free rental and loaner costs Honda hundreds million dollar, they are willing to spend that much to avoid another fatality and bad press.
Other automakers with defective Takata airbag don't offer similar service(free rental) and nobody seems to care.
Originally Posted By: VNTS
Your right but, kinda like playing Russian Roullette, not a good feeling. Myself I would pull the fuse and disable the bag.
Exactly, I don't care what the laws say, the fact that they would conceive of having an explosive device in front of my face is proof enough that good intentions don't equal good logic and common sense.
I would definitely pull the fuse for those airbags and not take an unneeded chance.
Your right but, kinda like playing Russian Roullette, not a good feeling. Myself I would pull the fuse and disable the bag.
Exactly, I don't care what the laws say, the fact that they would conceive of having an explosive device in front of my face is proof enough that good intentions don't equal good logic and common sense.
I would definitely pull the fuse for those airbags and not take an unneeded chance.
Kestas
Staff member
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
In a severe accident, your odds are better with the air bag, but I wonder what percentage of air bag deployments actually save a life?
You can set them off just pounding around in a field, and the car is essentially undamaged. That tells me there's lot of small accidents where the bags go off only to prevent minor injury.
I think if I were an urban driver only, I might be tempted to pull the fuse as the odds of high speed accident are a bit lower, but I'd have to do some more research.
Here are some bits of information I've learned over the years.
Air bags are more powerful in the US than in Europe. In the US, air bags are designed to restrain an unbelted person. In Europe, they assume the person is belted, and the air bag is considered a "face bag," which is less powerful. (Remember the problem of low speed accidents killing unbelted children?) The seat belt does a superior job of restraining a person, and can work in multiple impact events during an accident. The air bag is superior in preventing hyperextension of the neck, which is what used to happen in the old days before air bags. But it can only protect once, which is a problem if you get into a "bumper car" type of accident.
Studies have shown from questionnaires to people that experienced crashes, that just as many people complained their air bag when off when they didn't think it should go off, as people who didn't have their air bag go off when they thought it should have gone off. This indicates the designers hit the sweet spot of air bag deployment threshold.
In a severe accident, your odds are better with the air bag, but I wonder what percentage of air bag deployments actually save a life?
You can set them off just pounding around in a field, and the car is essentially undamaged. That tells me there's lot of small accidents where the bags go off only to prevent minor injury.
I think if I were an urban driver only, I might be tempted to pull the fuse as the odds of high speed accident are a bit lower, but I'd have to do some more research.
Here are some bits of information I've learned over the years.
Air bags are more powerful in the US than in Europe. In the US, air bags are designed to restrain an unbelted person. In Europe, they assume the person is belted, and the air bag is considered a "face bag," which is less powerful. (Remember the problem of low speed accidents killing unbelted children?) The seat belt does a superior job of restraining a person, and can work in multiple impact events during an accident. The air bag is superior in preventing hyperextension of the neck, which is what used to happen in the old days before air bags. But it can only protect once, which is a problem if you get into a "bumper car" type of accident.
Studies have shown from questionnaires to people that experienced crashes, that just as many people complained their air bag when off when they didn't think it should go off, as people who didn't have their air bag go off when they thought it should have gone off. This indicates the designers hit the sweet spot of air bag deployment threshold.
Just my gut feeling: the way current generation of air bag is not the right kind of design. Instead of having 1 big explosive charging into 1 big bag, it would be safer to have multiple ignition on multiple smaller explosives into multiple smaller bag chambers.
Kestas
Staff member
The way air bags are presently designed, the explosion has a controlled rate, and the exit points are designed to control the air leaving the bag. I'm not sure how you could accomplish the pressure and duration control with multiple chambers and multiple igniters.
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