Another GR86 blown and warranty denied

[Revving2Redline]

Guess Honda Civic Type R is known to be tracked? Porsche guys drive to the track, swap wheels and then swap back. Think Corvette says to increase viscosity/quantity in sump if more aggressive driving is to be done. Did Jeremy Clarkson and The Stig void all those cars of a warranty over the years??

 

[UG_Passat]

Define "overloading." They haven't. Overloading, to me, means exceedance of the GVWR. Did the GR86 driver do that?

And HPDE does not meet the definition of "misuse," (per their own advertising) "racing," or "competitive event."

That may be your interpretation, but not necessarily the auto maker's interpretation, especially when they review the stored data. The stored data doesn't differentiate between if you did a HPDE or autocross, it's data indicative of "misuse"

Even something as simple as a crappy driver that can't drive a manual transmission... over-reving and overslipping the clutch is covered under "misuse" when the technician pulls the clutch and sees the friction material glazed over. You may not be racing, but it is covered under misuse.

Toyota can also review the accelerometer to see what kind of G's they are pulling in acceleration, braking and turns. Since it can be displayed in the instrument cluster, that also is recordable information, that Toyota can review.

If the excessive RTV is a problem on the BRZ/GR (and potentially the WRX), why isn't the similar FA24 engine not an issue with Legacy/Outback and Ascent owners? Pretty much built in the same plant with the same robots applying the RTV to the oil pan. Maybe driving to the mall or off the beaten path doesn't stress the excessively applied RTV as much.

 

[IndyIan]

That may be your interpretation, but not necessarily the auto maker's interpretation, especially when they review the stored data. The stored data doesn't differentiate between if you did a HPDE or autocross, it's data indicative of "misuse"

Even something as simple as a crappy driver that can't drive a manual transmission... over-reving and overslipping the clutch is covered under "misuse" when the technician pulls the clutch and sees the friction material glazed over. You may not be racing, but it is covered under misuse.

Toyota can also review the accelerometer to see what kind of G's they are pulling in acceleration, braking and turns. Since it can be displayed in the instrument cluster, that also is recordable information, that Toyota can review.

If the excessive RTV is a problem on the BRZ/GR (and potentially the WRX), why isn't the similar FA24 engine not an issue with Legacy/Outback and Ascent owners? Pretty much built in the same plant with the same robots applying the RTV to the oil pan. Maybe driving to the mall or off the beaten path doesn't stress the excessively applied RTV as much.

Usually a HPDE is framed as an educational driving experience... If you looked at the data from the video, there's no car that should fail from that, let alone a sports car...
Realistically, Toyota should check to see if the car has ever had a downshift induced, extreme over rev event, and if not, give the guy a new engine and some advice.
Maybe with an oil pan baffle or whatever they use in the GR86 racing series, which in Australia has been running since 2016 https://www.toyota.com.au/gazoo-racing/86-series They use the standard engine and gear box with some different engine management and more open intake and exhaust, and probably a baffled oil pan. Then the engine is sealed and gets the driven hard for a couple seasons.
These stock engines spend more time above 5000rpm than below and have lots of sustained 1G+ cornering.

 

[Marcozi]

Unless you are pulling big G's on r-comps....a set of summers or 200s shouldn't cause this issue. I have gotten what we call in the VW/MK7 world "smoke screen" form surge through the PCV system. I upgraded to a different OE PCV which seems to have sorted it but a catch can + upgraded PCV plate would be best. Some folks with r-comps/really hard cornering g's have toasted the VW engines in that manner (oil starvation) which is only remedied by a baffled oil pan.

BMW N54 engines have an oil starvation issue when driven at a track. I believe the issue was resolved with the N55 engine. Btw, "N" engines were co-developed with either Renault or Peugeot. I won't touch those engines.

 

[ls1mike]

I guess with the current gen they're finally faster than my minivan...

I remember out running a 2015 with the wife's 2.0 LTG Malibu. The Malibu is not fast.

 

[TiGeo]

I remember out running a 2015 with the wife's 2.0 LTG Malibu. The Malibu is not fast.

See my video posted somewhere above in this thread...I passed it like it wasn't moving. They are momentum cars for sure and big power tracks like VIR Full isn't going to accentuate that on the long straights.

 

[edyvw]

I'm not sure Mazda is a good example

Apparently Mazda is collecting data on connected cars…

And using the data on people’s driving habits to deny warranty coverage. Link the the Reddit post. The Mazda Privacy Policy does allow for them to collect all sorts of data, and you have to contact them to disable the TCU if you don’t want them to do so. I’m sure they’re not the only automaker...

bobistheoilguy.com

I was referring to hardware, considering Miata's are probably most favorite track toy.
But yeah, unlike BMW, many of these companies would not cover HPDE etc. events.

 

[Pew]

As I've noted before, I've tracked every BMW on "my" side of the garage(going back to 1988 at Watkins Glen in my 1973 Bavaria). Absolutely no failures of any kind. My Club Sport was my instructor car from 1996 to 2012 and I never experienced a mechanical issue on road or track. When I owned my F22 the service advisor performed a pull-ahead on a complimentary oil change so-as he put it-"You'll have a sump full of fresh oil when you hit the track."

I've noticed BMW's policy on track-related stuff is all over the place. Some dealers will give you the middle finger while others are track friendly. The one I used to be a porter at would host BMW track events all the time but one a few towns over is much stricter. Maybe it's to cover themselves for legal reasons if they wanted to get out of doing the work, if they feel like it.

 

[PWMDMD]

I've noticed BMW's policy on track-related stuff is all over the place. Some dealers will give you the middle finger while others are track friendly. The one I used to be a porter at would host BMW track events all the time but one a few towns over is much stricter. Maybe it's to cover themselves for legal reasons if they wanted to get out of doing the work, if they feel like it.

That doesn't seem fair. All things being equal, if someone can do the exact same thing and going to dealership A results in no out-of-pocket cost but going to dealership B means you have to buy a new engine then there is far too much latitude given to dealerships who presumably represent the manufacture's interest here. It begs the question - why would dealership B care? Is it just about the juicy non-warranty work because I can guarantee they're also making an enemy in the process?

 

[dishdude]

I remember out running a 2015 with the wife's 2.0 LTG Malibu. The Malibu is not fast.

2.0T bu's aren't slow...

 

[Pew]

That doesn't seem fair. All things being equal, if someone can do the exact same thing and going to dealership A results in no out-of-pocket cost but going to dealership B means you have to buy a new engine then there is far too much latitude given to dealerships who presumably represent the manufacture's interest here. It begs the question - why would dealership B care? Is it just about the juicy non-warranty work because I can guarantee they're also making an enemy in the process?

I think a big part of it was client-dealer relations. We had a lot of return clients and their families that would buy multiple cars from us, all the service done there, etc. Some service advisors had good relations with their return clients and could push certain things as warranty work or good will. There was even a few clients from the dealership who I ran across outside the dealership and remembered me because they came in so often in the short time I worked there as just a porter.

 

[sk_pete]

You forget a key point about warranties and this situation that repeats itself.

View attachment 158609

Information stored in the ECU is also examined by Toyota when it comes to warranty coverage decisions.

Track events count as "Misuse, for example racing or overloading"

Here's BMW:
View attachment 158610

If you take your BMW out and participate in a track event, and you blew up your engine, BMW won'
t cover it either.

false advertising. imho this is against law.
it´s like selling a electric drill, but if you be drilling with it, it voids the warranty.

 

[ls1mike]

2.0T bu's aren't slow...

it is relative...LOL. For normal traffic it does ok.

 

[TiGeo]

The issue really comes down to...dealer vs. manufacturer. The dealer is the gatekeeper for warranty claims but isn't the provider of said warranty. They do however eat it if they fix your car, submit the claim, and the manufacturer denies it...effectively the dealer did the work for free which is the crux of why many "void" warranties even though they aren't the ones that can do that. Many have no idea how the warranty actually works. Always best if "no" from dealer is to firmly force the issue of them submitting a claim for approval. This may require you to not have the work done/let the car sit but many dealers just don't get this right in these less traditional situations (HPDE, modded, etc.).

 

[ls1mike]

I have not had to warranty many things in the past 25 years(Mostly on the 2002 Jetta.) What I have found is if you show up and act a fool well sometimes they don't want to help. If you show up and are respectful and humble you may just get the help you need.

What is the saying? You catch more bees/flies with honey then you do with vinegar.

 

[RooflessVW]

I have not had to warranty many things in the past 25 years(Mostly on the 2002 Jetta.) What I have found is if you show up and act a fool well sometimes they don't want to help. If you show up and are respectful and humble you may just get the help you need.

What is the saying? You catch more bees/flies with honey then you do with vinegar.

Yeah and keep your mouth shut.

"The car is making a weird noise."

 

[Soft Cars]

So does the oil pump pickup tube screen gets clogged with RTV?

Is Toyota so broke they can't give the guy a new engine?

 

[Soft Cars]

Why does Toyota advertise this car like this then?

That's terrible. They advertise the car going around a race track and then tell their customers they won't cover the engine for warranty if the car is starving for oil on the race track. These corporations are getting more and more crooked by the day.

 

[TiGeo]

Yeah and keep your mouth shut.

"The car is making a weird noise."

While laughing like Beavis and Butthead..uhuhuhuhuh

"It's like making weird noises and stuff...uhuhuhuhu"

 

[TiGeo]

So does the oil pump pickup tube screen gets clogged with RTV?

Is Toyota so broke they can't give the guy a new engine?

Yes, that has happened in a similar situation last year with the same car.