Another GR86 blown and warranty denied

[wemay]

Same car / Toyota will revisit warranty structure.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/toyot...-gr86-engine-warranty-changes-being-looked-at

 

[wemay]

From that article (THE DRIVE):

Toyota spokesperson told us, "We are honoring the warranty of [track-driven] cars as long as they're driven in the manner they're supposed to be driven. We have to handle any claims on a case-by-case basis, but taking your car to a track or taking it off-road doesn't necessarily limit or exclude warranty coverage."

"As we move forward with this brand, with these GR sports cars specifically, we're working it out as we go here, in terms of the policies we have in our warranty," the spokesperson continued. They added that although the arduous process of altering Toyota's policy has not formally begun, "We are in the process of evaluating our warranty language... Warranty language is being looked at."
The spokesperson also noted that it's difficult to provide blanket coverage for track use because Toyota is not able to discern how the cars are used outside of track events. "What about the life of the car outside of that video, too? So that all has to go into our decisions because engines aren't cheap," the spokesperson said.

 

[OilUzer]

I think that means they are going to specify a thicker oil.

 

[TiGeo]

"It's the 20W oil." - BITOG

Great testing and data collection. Subaru needs to have a look at this and come up with a fix.

 

[edyvw]

"It's the 20W oil." - BITOG

Great testing and data collection. Subaru needs to have a look at this and come up with a fix.

They won’t. It is marketing company and their focus are Outback’s etc. They found their profit there.
Toyota from start supposed to go B48 route, but they wanted cheap car. Well…

 

[TiGeo]

They won’t. It is marketing company and their focus are Outback’s etc. They found their profit there.
Toyota from start supposed to go B48 route, but they wanted cheap car. Well…

Outbacks....and Foresters/Crosstreks. For sure.

 

[IndyIan]

They won’t. It is marketing company and their focus are Outback’s etc. They found their profit there.
Toyota from start supposed to go B48 route, but they wanted cheap car. Well…

Oh, subaru must have something figured out for their spec racing cars... Some flaps or baffles?
Even the mighty BMW messes up some basic suspension engineering once in a while, lately the Supra/Z4 rear suspension.

Did the oil pressure video address raising the oil level? If so, I missed it. It interesting to see the pressure effect of sucking air into the oil pump, and that the pressure doesn't go to zero. But still

 

[TiGeo]

Would have been good to have a control car setup with OE 20W oil to see the differences.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

They won’t. It is marketing company and their focus are Outback’s etc. They found their profit there.
Toyota from start supposed to go B48 route, but they wanted cheap car. Well…

Gee whiz man. You really look at the world through a narrow viewpoint sometimes.

Did you not post a while back (maybe even in this thread) that BMW also has engines with oil pressure problems when turned certain directions on track?

Just about every car company on earth builds a bunch of mundane cars so that they can make some profits to build the ones that are more fun and they make less money on. Porsche is probably the best example of that.

Just give them a chance to come up with a fix before throwing them under the bus.

 

[TiGeo]

Gee whiz man. You really look at the world through a narrow viewpoint sometimes.

Did you not post a while back (maybe even in this thread) that BMW also has engines with oil pressure problems when turned certain directions on track?

Just about every car company on earth builds a bunch of mundane cars so that they can make some profits to build the ones that are more fun and they make less money on. Porsche is probably the best example of that.

Just give them a chance to come up with a fix before throwing them under the bus.

I'd bet that Subi is looking at this video...great effort and data.

 

[Pew]

Gee whiz man. You really look at the world through a narrow viewpoint sometimes.

Did you not post a while back (maybe even in this thread) that BMW also has engines with oil pressure problems when turned certain directions on track?

Just about every car company on earth builds a bunch of mundane cars so that they can make some profits to build the ones that are more fun and they make less money on. Porsche is probably the best example of that.

Just give them a chance to come up with a fix before throwing them under the bus.

The N54/55 has oil pressure issues on the track along with poor wastegates and wildly flexible ///M brake calipers.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Gee whiz man. You really look at the world through a narrow viewpoint sometimes.

Did you not post a while back (maybe even in this thread) that BMW also has engines with oil pressure problems when turned certain directions on track?

Just about every car company on earth builds a bunch of mundane cars so that they can make some profits to build the ones that are more fun and they make less money on. Porsche is probably the best example of that.

Just give them a chance to come up with a fix before throwing them under the bus.

Ya. The oil pan on the stock RWD N-series I6's doesn't have a baffle or dual pickup tubes which can result in starvation under certain scenarios. BMW does provide a solution which is dual pickup tubes with different oil pump. BMW used this oiling system in the S55 which is the "M" high performance variant of the N-series I6 and used in the M235i(?), M2/3/4.

The B48 being a 4-cylinder doesn't have this issue.

On an aside the big difference is that BMW never said nor advertised the cars with stock N-series I6's as "track ready".

 

[edyvw]

Gee whiz man. You really look at the world through a narrow viewpoint sometimes.

Did you not post a while back (maybe even in this thread) that BMW also has engines with oil pressure problems when turned certain directions on track?

Just about every car company on earth builds a bunch of mundane cars so that they can make some profits to build the ones that are more fun and they make less money on. Porsche is probably the best example of that.

Just give them a chance to come up with a fix before throwing them under the bus.

BMW had issues bcs. inherited problems with inline 6 design. And that is happening only on highly modified vehicles exceeding G limitation design. I track my BMW inline 6, and don’t have problems. But mine is just slightly modified.
4cyl should not have these issues!!!
This car from the beginning has these issues, which also previous model had. In addition, BMW cars built for track NEVER had this issues. M models have two puck up lines precisely bcs. this reason as it is expected that many owners will drive it on track.
GR selling point, the WHOLE idea was a track! An owner that wants to track vehicle. They advertised it that way, they focused on that audience.
Since car was on sale this is known issue, and Toyota in their fashion, same like with their 8 speed Aisin problems, sunroof problems, tailgate problems, is trying to avoid responsibility.

 

[edyvw]

Ya. The oil pan on the stock RWD N-series I6's doesn't have a baffle or dual pickup tubes which can result in starvation under certain scenarios. BMW does provide a solution (dual pickup tubes with different oil pump. BMW used this oiling system in the S55 which is the "M" high performance variant of the N-series I6 and used in the M235i(?), M2/3/4.

The B48 being a 4-cylinder doesn't have this issue.

And it is on modified vehicles. M models get dual pick up line regardless of generation.

 

[edyvw]

Oh, subaru must have something figured out for their spec racing cars... Some flaps or baffles?
Even the mighty BMW messes up some basic suspension engineering once in a while, lately the Supra/Z4 rear suspension.

Did the oil pressure video address raising the oil level? If so, I missed it. It interesting to see the pressure effect of sucking air into the oil pump, and that the pressure doesn't go to zero. But still

They had same issue on previous model.
Racing cars will have dual pick up lines at minimum. BMW M models have that.
Their idea was good, cheap stick shift vehicle that is fun on track. Problem is, it is too cheap.

 

[edyvw]

The N54/55 has oil pressure issues on the track along with poor wastegates and wildly flexible ///M brake calipers.

N54/55, as I stated before, suffer from design issue. It is too long of an engine. It is also happening on modified vehicles, especially N54 considering that people rack up engines to 500-600+hp while not addressing cooling and lubrication.
M vehicles have dual pick up line.
And that is key. Toyota wanted this car for track audience. M models have additional features to make sure this is not happening.
This was issue on previous model, it is issue now, and no any indication of trying to resolve issue. They will be selling cars and trying to avoid responsibility.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

And it is on modified vehicles

Are we sure this problem is happening on stock GR86? The ones in the videos are certainly modified.

Problem is, it is too cheap.

That's the thing. I would expect an M car to not have this problem. One, there is a lot more money for R&D, and two, it is tested extensively on track.

I am surprised Toyobaru they didn't find this problem in testing. Maybe they did, and thought it wasn't a big deal. Or maybe it only happens on modified cars, I don't know. But as you say, there is only so much R&D cost to go around on a cheap car, so we can't destroy them for missing something like this either.

 

[ZeeOSix]

"It's the 20W oil." - BITOG

... it dosn't help any track situation.

Great testing and data collection. Subaru needs to have a look at this and come up with a fix.

Of course any time there is any lack of oil supply to the oiling system engine damage can occur.

 

[loneryder]

Just looked the car up on Toyota's site. MSRP runs $28-32k. Looked up local dealers in DC area and they start at %35-38k. Guess dealers are jacking them up.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Great testing and data collection. Subaru needs to have a look at this and come up with a fix.

Their theory that the oil moves forward into the timing chain cover area causing pickup tube starvation doesn't seem to be the case when watching the oil pressure on the track. He brakes hard into sharp LH corners and the oil pressure stays pretty constant. Any time he takes a sharp RH corner, with hard braking or not, the pressure drops significantly. It's clearly the oil moving side to side in the pan and the location of the pickup tube causing this issue.

Wonder if they should have added a quart and tried the same testing. GM said in the C5 Corvette OM to add a quart of oil for track use to help prevent oil starvation in the corners.