PEA can be chemically written several ways, and this is one of them. Its PEA.
Analysis: PEA in different cleaners (Techron, Archoil, Oilsyn, Pro-Tec)
I will be adding & editing this post over the next hour.
I loose my draft here when opening other windows to paste info for some reason.
Hey Guys..... spent all day going "Bat Crap Crazy" on this one!
I was shocked over the e-mail from the owner Duane Gray of SuncoastBG who confirmed the availability of the #995DCA Fuel Test Kit is $363.66.
That is really pushing it too the limit from BG to really soak those who want to play 5th grade chemistry in our kitchens & is just too much for some trinket test kit, which again, in the words of the VP Racing Gas chemist who was nice enough to spend an hour on the phone today who basically said its not indicative of or reflects PEA concentration, let alone any other amine Nitogen-based cleaning agents like PIBSA or PIBA. He said there are many other Nitrogen based chemicals that can give False Positives, that offer no cleaning like even their Nitromethane fuel he said has Nitrogen in it, but not for cleaning ...!
So it could be all these Fuel System Cleaning brands know of this test & their competitors & can load up their cleaners with Nitrogen based gook, & laugh about it. Just my 2 pesos!
Anyway, he did not know of any simple common Fuel Industry Nitrogen Titrant Test, other than some ASTM complex methods he looked up. He said he has an old 1900's chemistry lab test book & will see if there is anything long forgotten of what this BG Test is doing & will let me know!
I did find these Nitrogen standardized tests but are more complex, but maybe some of those with chemistry backgrounds can use the named chemicals to implement into the simple BG titrant tests method.
We really need Molekule's help about all this, starting with Post#1...!
ASTM Peroleum Reference Tests:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/...diesel-jet-kerosine-specification-d_1990.html
Tests listed for Nitrogen Basic & Nitrogen Total Content:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/...y-quality-parameter-d_1993.html#Nitrogenbasic
https://www.borosilscientific.com/kjeldahl-method-principle-steps-formula-calculations-procedure/
I loose my draft here when opening other windows to paste info for some reason.
Hey Guys..... spent all day going "Bat Crap Crazy" on this one!
I was shocked over the e-mail from the owner Duane Gray of SuncoastBG who confirmed the availability of the #995DCA Fuel Test Kit is $363.66.
That is really pushing it too the limit from BG to really soak those who want to play 5th grade chemistry in our kitchens & is just too much for some trinket test kit, which again, in the words of the VP Racing Gas chemist who was nice enough to spend an hour on the phone today who basically said its not indicative of or reflects PEA concentration, let alone any other amine Nitogen-based cleaning agents like PIBSA or PIBA. He said there are many other Nitrogen based chemicals that can give False Positives, that offer no cleaning like even their Nitromethane fuel he said has Nitrogen in it, but not for cleaning ...!
So it could be all these Fuel System Cleaning brands know of this test & their competitors & can load up their cleaners with Nitrogen based gook, & laugh about it. Just my 2 pesos!
Anyway, he did not know of any simple common Fuel Industry Nitrogen Titrant Test, other than some ASTM complex methods he looked up. He said he has an old 1900's chemistry lab test book & will see if there is anything long forgotten of what this BG Test is doing & will let me know!
I did find these Nitrogen standardized tests but are more complex, but maybe some of those with chemistry backgrounds can use the named chemicals to implement into the simple BG titrant tests method
.We really need Molekule's help about all this, starting with Post#1...!
ASTM Peroleum Reference Tests:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/...diesel-jet-kerosine-specification-d_1990.html
Tests listed for Nitrogen Basic & Nitrogen Total Content:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/...y-quality-parameter-d_1993.html#Nitrogenbasic
Principle of the Kjeldahl Method
The Kjeldahl method determines nitrogen content by converting it into ammonium sulfate through digestion, followed by distillation and titrationhttps://www.borosilscientific.com/kjeldahl-method-principle-steps-formula-calculations-procedure/
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I thought I had read somewhere that they were different.
Here's a follow up on today's findings.
From that 4th video I posted in post #137 by BG Northwest, he mentioned that BG44k is now packaged under GM AcDelco & Motorcraft. I had to call a few dealers today since most only still use the BG brand.
BG44k equivalent:
GM AcDelco #19435370
Polyether Amine: 25%-50%. Polymer
Alkly Aminoester: <5%. TRADE SECRET
Alkenyl Amine: <5%. TRADE SECRET
https://assets2.brandfolder.io/bf-b...S_USA_ACDELCO_19435370_PF14-ACMT_EN_v1.02.pdf
The BG Kit Equivalent:
1 can of 44k & 2 cans of Induction Cleaner is also packaged under
GM ACDelco #19435372.
The 2 cans of Induction Cleaner is GM AcDelco #19435371.
The MSDS differs between the Delco cleaners vs. the Motorcraft 2 part kit & this should be reviewed or posted up if anyone wants too. I wonder if they both asked for different formulations; better, or less, or just different from BG brand, or the same & the o.e.'s chose what they wanted to disclose on the msds to keep us busy & entertained!
BG44k Equivalent:
Motorcraft: PM-44-A. (WSS-M14P16-B)
Poly Ether Polymer: 31%-45%. TRADE SECRET
Alkenyl Amine: 1%-5% TRADE SECRET
Motorcraft Kit: P-30-K
2 cans Combustion Chamber Cleaner: Poly Ether Polymer: 48%-52%
1 can Fuel Tank Additive: Poly Ether Polymer: 31%-45%
Both Motorcraft cleaners MSDS listed:
https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/products/engine-performance/productdetails?id=122
I suggest everyone take screenshots & PERMANANTLY download those MSDS sheets before BG removes them in the next few minutes!
From that 4th video I posted in post #137 by BG Northwest, he mentioned that BG44k is now packaged under GM AcDelco & Motorcraft. I had to call a few dealers today since most only still use the BG brand.
BG44k equivalent:
GM AcDelco #19435370
Polyether Amine: 25%-50%. Polymer
Alkly Aminoester: <5%. TRADE SECRET
Alkenyl Amine: <5%. TRADE SECRET
https://assets2.brandfolder.io/bf-b...S_USA_ACDELCO_19435370_PF14-ACMT_EN_v1.02.pdf
The BG Kit Equivalent:
1 can of 44k & 2 cans of Induction Cleaner is also packaged under
GM ACDelco #19435372.
The 2 cans of Induction Cleaner is GM AcDelco #19435371.
The MSDS differs between the Delco cleaners vs. the Motorcraft 2 part kit & this should be reviewed or posted up if anyone wants too. I wonder if they both asked for different formulations; better, or less, or just different from BG brand, or the same & the o.e.'s chose what they wanted to disclose on the msds to keep us busy & entertained!
BG44k Equivalent:
Motorcraft: PM-44-A. (WSS-M14P16-B)
Poly Ether Polymer: 31%-45%. TRADE SECRET
Alkenyl Amine: 1%-5% TRADE SECRET
Motorcraft Kit: P-30-K
2 cans Combustion Chamber Cleaner: Poly Ether Polymer: 48%-52%
1 can Fuel Tank Additive: Poly Ether Polymer: 31%-45%
Both Motorcraft cleaners MSDS listed:
https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/products/engine-performance/productdetails?id=122
I suggest everyone take screenshots & PERMANANTLY download those MSDS sheets before BG removes them in the next few minutes!
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Who would've known that the Russian Black Market deals in still overpriced BG Test Kits!
Also, today I came across this interesting post from 2005 on the Audi Forum & a Snooty letter from a BG Tech Service Manager of why BG removed the PEA from the msds:
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/12v-v6-discussion-52/bg-k-44-formula-still-same-2591738/
Here is statement from a guy who works for BG 44K:
2005
Michael D. Belluomo, BG Products, Inc.,
Technical Service Manager, Wichita, KS.
"Hello everyone. I just couldn't resist adding my 2 cents worth to your BG 44K discussion, as I see you have alot of theories and opinions on what BG44K is, and what it isn't. Since I am the Technical Service Manager for BG Products, Inc. I thought I would respond to you all this one time to set the record straight and inform you on what exactly you are seeing on the label contents of 44K.
First, I want to let you know that the contents on any product label do not necessarily reflect the proprietary formula for a product. Label contents are by and large grouped in general chemical categories so that proper handling and transportation issues can be determined. This information is only relevent to the transportation or service professional, and is not a clue to the average guy on what makes up a products' effectiveness. It is obvious that many of you here are not truly familiar with the intended function of label information or MDSD's. (Material Safety Data Sheets) If you were, then you'd know that this information has very little to do with proprietary formulations or active ingredients. Most of the time what you are reading on the label of a can or bottle is the major diluent (petroleum distillates, kerosene, mineral spirits, ect.) used to suspend the active ingredients. The active ingredients, in fact, may not be a regulated compound per se, and hence they may not be required to list. Now obviously some chemical companies do not necessarily provide ample of accurate information on their labels, nor care about regulatory compliance issues, as this area of enforcement is rarely monitored for accuracy. See this link for an example of a recent regulatory issue involving such a company:
http://www.caprep.com/0105003.htm
Recovered News Release:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070203032416/http://www.caprep.com/0105003.htm
However, BG Products is and has always been concerned with providing all lawful and relative information on their product labels and MSDS's, and we will continue to do so. With regard to BG 44K, I must admit that in the past we listed polyether amine as a major component of BG 44K, but this was actually not required by law. (This sure made the product sound powerful though...didn't it!) But, as we moved into the future, we sought to improve our consistency and compliance to relevent content information, and by doing so we revised a number of our product labels. During this revision period, we discovered it was unnecessary to list our unique, patented polyether amine compound (among other chemicals) as it was not regulated nor applicable to disclose. Since we are not interested in providing our competition with formulation secrets, we opted to cease label information that reflected any of the non-regulated but active chemistries to which you all frequently refer. Instead, we are now more consistent and uniform in providing the necessary label and MSDS information for regulatory purposes, even though this does not translate into good marketing (like you guys like to see).
Anyway in conclusion we still have the strongest and most effective fuel cleaner on the market today with BG 44K, and have not lessened or "cheapened" the performance of it. If you ever care to refer to our literature about it's performance, you will see that is well documented and extensive. In contrast to other companies who market products in this category, we are probably the only company you will find that has actual test data and fleet or vehicle information to back up it's proven claims. Anything you find pictured or stated in our literature would be actually grounded in real objective test data.
For instance, we list combustion chamber cleaning, catalytic converter restoration, and synergistic valve deposit cleaning as some of the hallmarks to BG 44K use. All of these attributes have been proven in controlled tests performed by independent (and internationally recognized) research organizations. However, this same standard for quality can not often times be said of other products that make claims similar to ours. In short, BG enjoys the stellar reputation that it has because it has always been a performance-based company, and not one concerned with manufacturing marginal products or promoting unclaimed hype.
Anyway I will conclude by saying that you are each entitled to your opinions and choices in this market of performance products, and I encourage you to continue to do so. Finally let me just add that, sometimes (well meaning though you may be), a little information in the hands of someone who doesn't fully know how to use it, is sometimes a more dangerous thing that not knowing anything at all. I trust that we all understand how important it is to remember what radio talk show host Paul Harvey always says.."and now....for the REST of the story!".
For those of you that are currently using our products and services, I want to thank you for your ongoing support, and for those of you who don't...well, I wish you the best with what you choose to use. That's all I have to say. Thank you for allowing me the chance to correct the misinformation stated here in the past about our products. You all are a faithful bunch of interested consumers and I greatly enjoy the efforts you've taken in doing the best that you can to maintain your vehicles. I wish you all many safe miles of driving ahead.
Sincerely, Michael D. Belluomo, BG Products, Inc., Technical Service Manager, Wichita, KS.
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/12v-v6-discussion-52/bg-k-44-formula-still-same-2591738/
Here is statement from a guy who works for BG 44K:
2005
Michael D. Belluomo, BG Products, Inc.,
Technical Service Manager, Wichita, KS.
"Hello everyone. I just couldn't resist adding my 2 cents worth to your BG 44K discussion, as I see you have alot of theories and opinions on what BG44K is, and what it isn't. Since I am the Technical Service Manager for BG Products, Inc. I thought I would respond to you all this one time to set the record straight and inform you on what exactly you are seeing on the label contents of 44K.
First, I want to let you know that the contents on any product label do not necessarily reflect the proprietary formula for a product. Label contents are by and large grouped in general chemical categories so that proper handling and transportation issues can be determined. This information is only relevent to the transportation or service professional, and is not a clue to the average guy on what makes up a products' effectiveness. It is obvious that many of you here are not truly familiar with the intended function of label information or MDSD's. (Material Safety Data Sheets) If you were, then you'd know that this information has very little to do with proprietary formulations or active ingredients. Most of the time what you are reading on the label of a can or bottle is the major diluent (petroleum distillates, kerosene, mineral spirits, ect.) used to suspend the active ingredients. The active ingredients, in fact, may not be a regulated compound per se, and hence they may not be required to list. Now obviously some chemical companies do not necessarily provide ample of accurate information on their labels, nor care about regulatory compliance issues, as this area of enforcement is rarely monitored for accuracy. See this link for an example of a recent regulatory issue involving such a company:
http://www.caprep.com/0105003.htm
Recovered News Release:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070203032416/http://www.caprep.com/0105003.htm
However, BG Products is and has always been concerned with providing all lawful and relative information on their product labels and MSDS's, and we will continue to do so. With regard to BG 44K, I must admit that in the past we listed polyether amine as a major component of BG 44K, but this was actually not required by law. (This sure made the product sound powerful though...didn't it!) But, as we moved into the future, we sought to improve our consistency and compliance to relevent content information, and by doing so we revised a number of our product labels. During this revision period, we discovered it was unnecessary to list our unique, patented polyether amine compound (among other chemicals) as it was not regulated nor applicable to disclose. Since we are not interested in providing our competition with formulation secrets, we opted to cease label information that reflected any of the non-regulated but active chemistries to which you all frequently refer. Instead, we are now more consistent and uniform in providing the necessary label and MSDS information for regulatory purposes, even though this does not translate into good marketing (like you guys like to see).
Anyway in conclusion we still have the strongest and most effective fuel cleaner on the market today with BG 44K, and have not lessened or "cheapened" the performance of it. If you ever care to refer to our literature about it's performance, you will see that is well documented and extensive. In contrast to other companies who market products in this category, we are probably the only company you will find that has actual test data and fleet or vehicle information to back up it's proven claims. Anything you find pictured or stated in our literature would be actually grounded in real objective test data.
For instance, we list combustion chamber cleaning, catalytic converter restoration, and synergistic valve deposit cleaning as some of the hallmarks to BG 44K use. All of these attributes have been proven in controlled tests performed by independent (and internationally recognized) research organizations. However, this same standard for quality can not often times be said of other products that make claims similar to ours. In short, BG enjoys the stellar reputation that it has because it has always been a performance-based company, and not one concerned with manufacturing marginal products or promoting unclaimed hype.
Anyway I will conclude by saying that you are each entitled to your opinions and choices in this market of performance products, and I encourage you to continue to do so. Finally let me just add that, sometimes (well meaning though you may be), a little information in the hands of someone who doesn't fully know how to use it, is sometimes a more dangerous thing that not knowing anything at all. I trust that we all understand how important it is to remember what radio talk show host Paul Harvey always says.."and now....for the REST of the story!".
For those of you that are currently using our products and services, I want to thank you for your ongoing support, and for those of you who don't...well, I wish you the best with what you choose to use. That's all I have to say. Thank you for allowing me the chance to correct the misinformation stated here in the past about our products. You all are a faithful bunch of interested consumers and I greatly enjoy the efforts you've taken in doing the best that you can to maintain your vehicles. I wish you all many safe miles of driving ahead.
Sincerely, Michael D. Belluomo, BG Products, Inc., Technical Service Manager, Wichita, KS.
thanks but that seems odd to me but I admit I have no personal knowledge of this...
...as had I on this Forum...but again, I have no first hand knowledge that there is more than one way to write PEA...
Bill
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2025
- Messages
- 1
There is many products mentioned , but which is most concentrated nowadays ?
Redline, LiquyM Reininger or BG44K ?
Redline, LiquyM Reininger or BG44K ?