SSO VS. XL vs Pennzoil of any other proper rated oil isn't a better oil is longer lasting oil Running syn oil at 5,000 mile intervals will not give ant benefits for the money spent.
Amsoil Signature Series 0W-30 in my 4runner
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Originally Posted By: snowbizx
SSO installed. after a weekend of driving i would say the car is running/shifting exactly the same. if there's any advantage in fuel economy, it's almost negligible. next change in a few months at 10k...
The major increase you will see is from the engine break in which happens up to 20,000 miles I have a 2006 4 cyl 4x4 it took that long to get max mpgs .Do your diffs, trans at around 5,000 miles then at recommended intervals. Todays energy savings oils give the same mpgs as a oil with PAO base stocks.
SSO installed. after a weekend of driving i would say the car is running/shifting exactly the same. if there's any advantage in fuel economy, it's almost negligible. next change in a few months at 10k...
The major increase you will see is from the engine break in which happens up to 20,000 miles I have a 2006 4 cyl 4x4 it took that long to get max mpgs .Do your diffs, trans at around 5,000 miles then at recommended intervals. Todays energy savings oils give the same mpgs as a oil with PAO base stocks.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
SSO VS. XL vs Pennzoil of any other proper rated oil isn't a better oil is longer lasting oil Running syn oil at 5,000 mile intervals will not give ant benefits for the money spent.
I do agree with you here. But.....on a new motor it is proven there are higher PPM levels of break in metals, so it is wise to drop the oil sooner. I guess he could go with XL or similiar until 20k miles or so but he already had the SSO on order. It's only like a couple more bucks than mobil one anyway. It's only money...right?
SSO VS. XL vs Pennzoil of any other proper rated oil isn't a better oil is longer lasting oil Running syn oil at 5,000 mile intervals will not give ant benefits for the money spent.
I do agree with you here. But.....on a new motor it is proven there are higher PPM levels of break in metals, so it is wise to drop the oil sooner. I guess he could go with XL or similiar until 20k miles or so but he already had the SSO on order. It's only like a couple more bucks than mobil one anyway. It's only money...right?
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: snowbizx
SSO installed. after a weekend of driving i would say the car is running/shifting exactly the same. if there's any advantage in fuel economy, it's almost negligible. next change in a few months at 10k...
The major increase you will see is from the engine break in which happens up to 20,000 miles I have a 2006 4 cyl 4x4 it took that long to get max mpgs .Do your diffs, trans at around 5,000 miles then at recommended intervals. Todays energy savings oils give the same mpgs as a oil with PAO base stocks.
I think you're right about the 20k mile breakin. Seems like i am experiencing better mpg now more than i ever have now with 20k+ on my rigs.
You really think 5k interval on FF for the diffs?
I have noticed though, that the japanese made toyota's diff fluid seems to hold up longer for some reason. Maybe they use better fluid? Dunno.
Originally Posted By: snowbizx
SSO installed. after a weekend of driving i would say the car is running/shifting exactly the same. if there's any advantage in fuel economy, it's almost negligible. next change in a few months at 10k...
The major increase you will see is from the engine break in which happens up to 20,000 miles I have a 2006 4 cyl 4x4 it took that long to get max mpgs .Do your diffs, trans at around 5,000 miles then at recommended intervals. Todays energy savings oils give the same mpgs as a oil with PAO base stocks.
I think you're right about the 20k mile breakin. Seems like i am experiencing better mpg now more than i ever have now with 20k+ on my rigs.
You really think 5k interval on FF for the diffs?
I have noticed though, that the japanese made toyota's diff fluid seems to hold up longer for some reason. Maybe they use better fluid? Dunno.
Doing the diffs and trans gets the breakin wear out and promotes max life out of the units. There is sae testing done on the subject I did not make it up.5,000 miles is for the first change only.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Doing the diffs and trans gets the breakin wear out and promotes max life out of the units. There is sae testing done on the subject I did not make it up.5,000 miles is for the first change only.
I figured you didn't make it up. I actually dropped the rear diff in my tundra at 5k miles, simply because the truck does a lot of heavy towing. It now has Amsoil SG 75w90 in all 3 diffs now, which i did at 15k miles.
But the trans uses WS fluid, and it is a sealed unit. I plan to do a service on it at 50k miles.
Doing the diffs and trans gets the breakin wear out and promotes max life out of the units. There is sae testing done on the subject I did not make it up.5,000 miles is for the first change only.
I figured you didn't make it up. I actually dropped the rear diff in my tundra at 5k miles, simply because the truck does a lot of heavy towing. It now has Amsoil SG 75w90 in all 3 diffs now, which i did at 15k miles.
But the trans uses WS fluid, and it is a sealed unit. I plan to do a service on it at 50k miles.
steve, i agree. no need to use the SSO if u don't intend to take advantage of the extended intervals. however, i already had it on order... i also figured that i'd get the most accurate UOA results when i send it in after the 10k-20k interval - no residual XL will be in the sample... just a trace amount of the "old" SSO. this sample will hopefully give me a good idea as to what i'll be able to get outta my SSO from then on.
i'll keep the 5k in mind for the diff and trans fluids. i'll most likely change it out before i start towing for the season. as for the trans cooler, i didn't think it was necessary. how 'bout u? i'll talk to my dealer. maybe if i spend the extra $$ and have them install it, it would be included in my warranty.
on another note, i just picked up my bike trailer and hooked it up to my truck for the first time. i get a whopping 13.5 mpg when it's empty. i can't wait to see what i get when it's full
. never went over 2500rpms tho
i'll keep the 5k in mind for the diff and trans fluids. i'll most likely change it out before i start towing for the season. as for the trans cooler, i didn't think it was necessary. how 'bout u? i'll talk to my dealer. maybe if i spend the extra $$ and have them install it, it would be included in my warranty.
on another note, i just picked up my bike trailer and hooked it up to my truck for the first time. i get a whopping 13.5 mpg when it's empty. i can't wait to see what i get when it's full
This shows the chart for break in according to make and model. I tried putting the chart on here but the format is screwed up.
Copy and paste for the chart:
http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/2007/article_ChangeGearLube.aspx
Change Gear Lube After Break-In Period for Long Differential Life
by Kevin Dinwiddie
AMSOIL Drivetrain Specialist Kevin Dinwiddie is a veteran of 28 years in the oil industry and a Certified Lubrication Specialist (CLS) by the Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers (STLE).
This article appeared in Professional Car Washing Magazine, March 2007
Few motorists realize that most differential wear occurs during the first 5,000 mile break-in period. Quick lubes can do customers a service, as well as increase profits, by encouraging them to change to high quality synthetic gear lube following the break-in period in order to reduce wear and extend differential life.
Motorists know when they’re supposed to change their motor oil. They have oil life monitors, oil change centers and television commercials all telling them when it’s time for an oil change. Differential oil changes, on the other hand, often get overlooked. Many people don’t even think of the differential when performing routine maintenance on their vehicles and don’t realize four-wheel drive trucks have two differentials and a transfer case that all require service. In fact, according to one quick lube company, only one to two percent of their customers purchase a differential gear lube change.
Most differential wear occurs during the break-in period. Because differentials are not equipped with filters, break-in metals are suspended in the oil, causing increased wear as the particles mesh between the gears. Hauling heavy loads and towing heavy trailers causes additional stress to the differential during the break-in period and can lead to premature differential damage or failure. Changing the gear lube after the break-in period (about 3,000 to 5,000 miles) is a low-cost maintenance investment that provides a significant payoff, including greatly reduced wear, extended differential gear and bearing life and protection for expensive vehicle investments.
Auto manufacturers recognize the importance of draining abrasive break-in materials. As seen in Chart 1, some manufacturers recommend an initial drain interval of between 500 and 3,000 miles.
Differential internal components consist of six gears (one pinion, one ring, two side and two spider gears), six bearings (two pinion, two carrier and two axle) and sometimes include a clutch setup for limited slip performance. All of these parts require high quality, clean gear oil in order to perform at an optimal level.
Most pickup trucks, SUVs and vans operate in severe service conditions, including towing, hauling, steep hill driving, commercial use, plowing, , off-road use, rapid acceleration, frequent stop-and-go operation and high ambient temperatures. These severe service operating conditions subject the differential to extreme pressures and operating temperatures.
New vehicles such as turbo diesel trucks and vehicles with V-10 engines boast more horsepower and torque than their predecessors, but differential designs have remained virtually unchanged. Differentials today are subjected to severe duty service and encounter more stress and heat than was seen only a few years ago. Modern gear oils are challenged with providing adequate wear protection during severe service operating conditions, while also providing maximum fuel efficiency.
According to a 2005 SAE paper titled “Breaking the Viscosity Paradigm: Formulating Approaches for Optimizing Efficiency and Vehicle Life,” concurrent with this strong drive toward better fuel economy, consumers have been demanding increased performance, which has required axle lubricants with enhanced durability protection and lower operating temperatures. There has been a 34 percent increase in engine horsepower over the last decade, while axle gear sizes have remained constant, sump capacities have been lowered, and drain intervals extended. In the light truck segment there has been a 93 percent horsepower increase since 1981.
Further evidence of stress and increased temperatures during the differential break-in period is documented in a 2005 SAE paper titled “The Effect of Heavy Loads on Light Duty Vehicle Axle Operating Temperature.” A light duty GM truck towing 14,000 pounds was driven from Orange County, Calif. to the Nevada state line. The test was conducted with both a new axle and a broken-in axle. Over level ground towing, oil temperature was measured at 230 degrees F in the new axle and 203 degrees F in the broken-in axle. Oil temperature over the most grueling portion of the trip, during which a maximum 6 percent grade was encountered, revealed the new axle was operating at 350 degrees F and the broken-in axle was operating at 300 degrees F. Laboratory dynamometer test results simulating a truck hauling a trailer provided similar results, with level ground towing temperatures recorded at 266 degrees F with the new axle and 194 degrees F with the broken-in axle and towing temperatures (at a 3.5 percent grade) recorded at 370 degrees F with the new axle and 295 degrees F with the broken-in axle.
For optimum protection in today’s differentials operating in severe service environments high quality synthetic gear lubes are recommended. In some cases synthetic gears lubes are capable of extended drain intervals of up to 50,000 miles in severe service and 100,000 miles in normal service, or longer where specified by the vehicle manufacturer. AMSOIL synthetic gear lubes, for example, are formulated with shear stable synthetic base stocks and an extra treatment of additives. Unlike conventional petroleum gear lubes their excellent thermal stability prevents thermal runaway, a phenomenon caused by a lubricant’s inability to control friction and increased heat under high stress conditions.
Premium synthetic gear lubes are available for a full range of applications, including turbo diesel pick-ups, SUVs, vans, delivery/utility vehicles, light, medium and heavy-duty trucks, buses, heavy equipment, 4x4s, tow trucks, race cars, tractors and motor homes.
Synthetic gear lubes save motorists money through extended drain intervals, and they are also cost effective as compared to petroleum gear lubes.
Most customers are unaware of the importance of changing the factory-fill gear oil within the first few thousand miles. Synthetic gear lubes are ideal for owners of new vehicles so provide your customers a valuable service and recommend differential oil changes. Your customers will appreciate the service and you will increase sales.
Copy and paste for the chart:
http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/2007/article_ChangeGearLube.aspx
Change Gear Lube After Break-In Period for Long Differential Life
by Kevin Dinwiddie
AMSOIL Drivetrain Specialist Kevin Dinwiddie is a veteran of 28 years in the oil industry and a Certified Lubrication Specialist (CLS) by the Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers (STLE).
This article appeared in Professional Car Washing Magazine, March 2007
Few motorists realize that most differential wear occurs during the first 5,000 mile break-in period. Quick lubes can do customers a service, as well as increase profits, by encouraging them to change to high quality synthetic gear lube following the break-in period in order to reduce wear and extend differential life.
Motorists know when they’re supposed to change their motor oil. They have oil life monitors, oil change centers and television commercials all telling them when it’s time for an oil change. Differential oil changes, on the other hand, often get overlooked. Many people don’t even think of the differential when performing routine maintenance on their vehicles and don’t realize four-wheel drive trucks have two differentials and a transfer case that all require service. In fact, according to one quick lube company, only one to two percent of their customers purchase a differential gear lube change.
Most differential wear occurs during the break-in period. Because differentials are not equipped with filters, break-in metals are suspended in the oil, causing increased wear as the particles mesh between the gears. Hauling heavy loads and towing heavy trailers causes additional stress to the differential during the break-in period and can lead to premature differential damage or failure. Changing the gear lube after the break-in period (about 3,000 to 5,000 miles) is a low-cost maintenance investment that provides a significant payoff, including greatly reduced wear, extended differential gear and bearing life and protection for expensive vehicle investments.
Auto manufacturers recognize the importance of draining abrasive break-in materials. As seen in Chart 1, some manufacturers recommend an initial drain interval of between 500 and 3,000 miles.
Differential internal components consist of six gears (one pinion, one ring, two side and two spider gears), six bearings (two pinion, two carrier and two axle) and sometimes include a clutch setup for limited slip performance. All of these parts require high quality, clean gear oil in order to perform at an optimal level.
Most pickup trucks, SUVs and vans operate in severe service conditions, including towing, hauling, steep hill driving, commercial use, plowing, , off-road use, rapid acceleration, frequent stop-and-go operation and high ambient temperatures. These severe service operating conditions subject the differential to extreme pressures and operating temperatures.
New vehicles such as turbo diesel trucks and vehicles with V-10 engines boast more horsepower and torque than their predecessors, but differential designs have remained virtually unchanged. Differentials today are subjected to severe duty service and encounter more stress and heat than was seen only a few years ago. Modern gear oils are challenged with providing adequate wear protection during severe service operating conditions, while also providing maximum fuel efficiency.
According to a 2005 SAE paper titled “Breaking the Viscosity Paradigm: Formulating Approaches for Optimizing Efficiency and Vehicle Life,” concurrent with this strong drive toward better fuel economy, consumers have been demanding increased performance, which has required axle lubricants with enhanced durability protection and lower operating temperatures. There has been a 34 percent increase in engine horsepower over the last decade, while axle gear sizes have remained constant, sump capacities have been lowered, and drain intervals extended. In the light truck segment there has been a 93 percent horsepower increase since 1981.
Further evidence of stress and increased temperatures during the differential break-in period is documented in a 2005 SAE paper titled “The Effect of Heavy Loads on Light Duty Vehicle Axle Operating Temperature.” A light duty GM truck towing 14,000 pounds was driven from Orange County, Calif. to the Nevada state line. The test was conducted with both a new axle and a broken-in axle. Over level ground towing, oil temperature was measured at 230 degrees F in the new axle and 203 degrees F in the broken-in axle. Oil temperature over the most grueling portion of the trip, during which a maximum 6 percent grade was encountered, revealed the new axle was operating at 350 degrees F and the broken-in axle was operating at 300 degrees F. Laboratory dynamometer test results simulating a truck hauling a trailer provided similar results, with level ground towing temperatures recorded at 266 degrees F with the new axle and 194 degrees F with the broken-in axle and towing temperatures (at a 3.5 percent grade) recorded at 370 degrees F with the new axle and 295 degrees F with the broken-in axle.
For optimum protection in today’s differentials operating in severe service environments high quality synthetic gear lubes are recommended. In some cases synthetic gears lubes are capable of extended drain intervals of up to 50,000 miles in severe service and 100,000 miles in normal service, or longer where specified by the vehicle manufacturer. AMSOIL synthetic gear lubes, for example, are formulated with shear stable synthetic base stocks and an extra treatment of additives. Unlike conventional petroleum gear lubes their excellent thermal stability prevents thermal runaway, a phenomenon caused by a lubricant’s inability to control friction and increased heat under high stress conditions.
Premium synthetic gear lubes are available for a full range of applications, including turbo diesel pick-ups, SUVs, vans, delivery/utility vehicles, light, medium and heavy-duty trucks, buses, heavy equipment, 4x4s, tow trucks, race cars, tractors and motor homes.
Synthetic gear lubes save motorists money through extended drain intervals, and they are also cost effective as compared to petroleum gear lubes.
Most customers are unaware of the importance of changing the factory-fill gear oil within the first few thousand miles. Synthetic gear lubes are ideal for owners of new vehicles so provide your customers a valuable service and recommend differential oil changes. Your customers will appreciate the service and you will increase sales.
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Thanks a lot for that info oilboy. Good reading.
The temperature test comparing a broken in axle to a new axle was very interesting. Between 30 & 60+ degrees is a huge difference, considering heat is the cause of most diff failures.
My tundra got the rear diff fluid changed at 5k miles with a durablend lube, and then got the Amsoil SG treatment at 15k so it should be in good shape.
My 4runner on the other hand, just barely got the SG treatment at 18k or so but i have yet to do the other 2 diffs. Guess i know what to add to my Amsoil order in a few days, after the price drops.
What would the recomended Amsoil SG OCI be on a rear diff with a 4 qt sump and heavy towing? What about a 4runner with no towing?
Owner's manual suggests every 30k rear for towing and every 15k in the front diff. Would i be safe to double this? Or safer to check it regularly?
Again, thanks for the post.
The temperature test comparing a broken in axle to a new axle was very interesting. Between 30 & 60+ degrees is a huge difference, considering heat is the cause of most diff failures.
My tundra got the rear diff fluid changed at 5k miles with a durablend lube, and then got the Amsoil SG treatment at 15k so it should be in good shape.
My 4runner on the other hand, just barely got the SG treatment at 18k or so but i have yet to do the other 2 diffs. Guess i know what to add to my Amsoil order in a few days, after the price drops.
What would the recomended Amsoil SG OCI be on a rear diff with a 4 qt sump and heavy towing? What about a 4runner with no towing?
Owner's manual suggests every 30k rear for towing and every 15k in the front diff. Would i be safe to double this? Or safer to check it regularly?
Again, thanks for the post.
Originally Posted By: snowbizx
steve, i agree. no need to use the SSO if u don't intend to take advantage of the extended intervals. however, i already had it on order... i also figured that i'd get the most accurate UOA results when i send it in after the 10k-20k interval - no residual XL will be in the sample... just a trace amount of the "old" SSO. this sample will hopefully give me a good idea as to what i'll be able to get outta my SSO from then on.
i'll keep the 5k in mind for the diff and trans fluids. i'll most likely change it out before i start towing for the season. as for the trans cooler, i didn't think it was necessary. how 'bout u? i'll talk to my dealer. maybe if i spend the extra $$ and have them install it, it would be included in my warranty.
on another note, i just picked up my bike trailer and hooked it up to my truck for the first time. i get a whopping 13.5 mpg when it's empty. i can't wait to see what i get when it's full
. never went over 2500rpms tho
Good call on sticking with the SSO IMO. You may see added protection using the SSO during breakin anyway.
I know this is for Steve but, i would just get the cooler done to be safe. I had my mechanic do it for me on our 99 4runner, and it was like $120 or so. I'd imagine the stealership would be double that or more; dunno. If you do have a mechanic do it, be sure he uses WS fluid to top off. But...he better be experienced with the toyota sealed trannies.
The dealer may tell you that you don't need one cause you have somewhat of a cooler thru the radiator. It is not in fact a cooler, but i'd call it a sub par attempt at one. Good if you're not towing, but not enough if you do. I know most folks recomend a thermostatically controlled one. It only opens the flow when the fluid gets hot enough.
YOu will get horrible mpg until it's broke in; especially towing.
I couldn't get much over 16-17(empty)until lately, which now i have been able to muster 20-21. Must be broke in now at 20k.
steve, i agree. no need to use the SSO if u don't intend to take advantage of the extended intervals. however, i already had it on order... i also figured that i'd get the most accurate UOA results when i send it in after the 10k-20k interval - no residual XL will be in the sample... just a trace amount of the "old" SSO. this sample will hopefully give me a good idea as to what i'll be able to get outta my SSO from then on.
i'll keep the 5k in mind for the diff and trans fluids. i'll most likely change it out before i start towing for the season. as for the trans cooler, i didn't think it was necessary. how 'bout u? i'll talk to my dealer. maybe if i spend the extra $$ and have them install it, it would be included in my warranty.
on another note, i just picked up my bike trailer and hooked it up to my truck for the first time. i get a whopping 13.5 mpg when it's empty. i can't wait to see what i get when it's full
Good call on sticking with the SSO IMO. You may see added protection using the SSO during breakin anyway.
I know this is for Steve but, i would just get the cooler done to be safe. I had my mechanic do it for me on our 99 4runner, and it was like $120 or so. I'd imagine the stealership would be double that or more; dunno. If you do have a mechanic do it, be sure he uses WS fluid to top off. But...he better be experienced with the toyota sealed trannies.
The dealer may tell you that you don't need one cause you have somewhat of a cooler thru the radiator. It is not in fact a cooler, but i'd call it a sub par attempt at one. Good if you're not towing, but not enough if you do. I know most folks recomend a thermostatically controlled one. It only opens the flow when the fluid gets hot enough.
YOu will get horrible mpg until it's broke in; especially towing.
I couldn't get much over 16-17(empty)until lately, which now i have been able to muster 20-21. Must be broke in now at 20k.
great info, oilboy!
3yotas, i've done some research on the cooler and tru-cool makes one that only allows oil to flow through when it reaches a thin enough viscosity (hot). the cold oil is bypassed. it seems a little simpler than a thermo valve that opens and closes. either way, i'm gonna try to find a mechanic for my truck bc the dealership didn't even know what i was talking about. it's pretty sad to say the least. bottom line... i don't want to be messing with a sealed trans system.
so how hard is changing the diff fluid? or finding the fittings to grease? i think that's about as much maintenance i'll be doing myself
3yotas, i've done some research on the cooler and tru-cool makes one that only allows oil to flow through when it reaches a thin enough viscosity (hot). the cold oil is bypassed. it seems a little simpler than a thermo valve that opens and closes. either way, i'm gonna try to find a mechanic for my truck bc the dealership didn't even know what i was talking about. it's pretty sad to say the least. bottom line... i don't want to be messing with a sealed trans system.
so how hard is changing the diff fluid? or finding the fittings to grease? i think that's about as much maintenance i'll be doing myself
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I have a 2007 4-Runner and I went a step further and purchased a 100k warranty. I purchased that warranty for the electronics, the A/C, etc.....not the engine. So far, we are averaging about 5k-6k miles every 6 months. I am an Amsoil fan, but I have decided to go with 6 month OCI's using PP....regardless of mileage. Yeah, I'm not going to loose sleep if I go 6k miles in a 6 month period.
By the way, I am using 5w20 from October to March and using 5w30 from March to October.
By the way, I am using 5w20 from October to March and using 5w30 from March to October.
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