A few years ago I was running AMSOIL Signature Series 5w-30. I was mistakenly under the impression that it met API SP. When I found out it did not, I called AMSOIL technical support to find out why. Tech support told me without equivocation that AMSOIL strongly disagreed with the API on certain parameters and max phosphorus (ZDDP) was one such parameter. They told me they didn’t believe an oil could provide adequate protection at the current levels, so they had more anti wear additive than allowed, hence no API cert. Sounds good right? Well, those phosphorus levels were set to protect against catalytic converter poisoning, so maybe not on a holistic level. Now I have seen AMSOIL Signature Series 5w-30 VOA’s all over the place the last few years, in terms of phosphorus. Some show phosphorus in the 630 ppm range and some in the 850+ ppm range. Does anyone know what the testing for API consists of in regards to max phosphorus? Is the manufacturer required to submit so many random samples for analysis, etc.? Has anyone else received the same info from AMSOIL tech support?
AMSOIL Signatures Series 5w-30 Phosphorus Levels
- Thread starter cvd537
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Here we go again.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
What are you running now? Why not just stick to it, or find another oil brand name with numbers that satisfy you?
BTW.... I am not a believer that you received that assortment of conflicting information from a Amsoil T/S rep.
Everyone else here at BITOG seems lucky enough to just find anyone at the oil companies even pick up the phone, or answer an email...... then give a short one sentence answer or shrug.
You are required to have Kryptonite Powers to actually see a shrug while talking on a non-camera transfer phone.
I have such, so please don't respond by arm-extending your hand and middle finger.
All kidding aside..... welcome to BITOG.
BTW.... I am not a believer that you received that assortment of conflicting information from a Amsoil T/S rep.
Everyone else here at BITOG seems lucky enough to just find anyone at the oil companies even pick up the phone, or answer an email...... then give a short one sentence answer or shrug.
You are required to have Kryptonite Powers to actually see a shrug while talking on a non-camera transfer phone.
I have such, so please don't respond by arm-extending your hand and middle finger.
All kidding aside..... welcome to BITOG.
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The conspiracy seems to be people trying to not talk about anything that looks negative in regards to AMSOIL and trying to get the posts locked. Let’s have a fact based discussion and get to the bottom of this. No need to get our feelers hurt. I believe the current phosphorus levels were set to 800 ppm in 2004 under API SM. Has it been going on that long, and I am the first person to simply called AMSOIL and ask a simple question?
The API specification for phosphorus from SM through SP is 0.06 - 0.08%. Adjusting for significant figures, this translates to 550 - 849 ppm. I don't know what the API requires for testing verification, but I believe the manufacturer self reports.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Had Amsoil swapped the 1289 Calcium numbers with the 960 Magnesium numbers, I would then call the Formula the most Bestest, Grandeur Amsoil Oil ever put together.
Dr. Frankenblend said so anyways.
The ZDDP level is very good and plenty safe enough for the Cat Converters.
Dan Peterson said in order to get the deposit chemistry down, they needed a dewpoint-controlled test cell. I think the balance is fine as is lol.
1:29
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
I think you and the Dan-guy are correct. But I like walking this earth unbalanced. Keeps me in new shoes...lol
Maybe your googlefoo is better than mine. Please share. In my experience all the specs are behind a paywall.
They are not behind a paywall. Enjoy.
API 1509 Documents
The American Petroleum Institute (API) is the only national trade association that represents all aspects of America’s oil and natural gas industry. Our more than 600 corporate members, from the largest major oil company to the smallest of independents, come from all segments of the industry.
www.api.org
Thanks.They are not behind a paywall. Enjoy.
API 1509 Documents
The American Petroleum Institute (API) is the only national trade association that represents all aspects of America’s oil and natural gas industry. Our more than 600 corporate members, from the largest major oil company to the smallest of independents, come from all segments of the industry.
For API SP/ILSAC GF-6A:
0.06-0.08 %mass by ASTM D4952 or D5185 for wear and catalyst compatibility, respectively.
81% min phosphorus retention by ASTM D8111.
These don’t appear to be self reported, but rather a requirement to be verified via testing at a certified lab.
Signature Series has never been API licensed. Amsoil may have started with a licensed add pack, but after their additions (modifications) to the chemistry, the final formulation has never remained within the boundaries of an API licensed product.
So you are saying their final formulation could not meet API licensing requirements?
Signature Series has never been a licensed oil as it has always exceeded the chemical restricted limits. That's why they also make an OE line.
Very possible at one point, though in recent years, their formulations have gotten a bit less wild. At one point, Amsoil's argument was to also not license so they could have continued flexibility with base oil and chemistry changes, but I don't think it was the only reason.
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Yes all tests must be conducted by a qualified lab, but the final complete testing report and formulation are then submitted to the API by the oil manufacturer. Not sure if the API verifies any test results through additional testing.
Most oil companies, some majors and boutiques excluded, blend an API certified formulation provided by their additive supplier, which comes with the test results conducted by the additive company.
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