Amsoil ProductApplication Guide Confusion

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bbechtel16

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I have been using Signature Series 0W-30 (SSO) in my '01 Sentra 2.0 since I got it. I noticed when I went to order again that they have finished revamping the Signature Series, and the application guide is now recommending 5W-30 (ASL) for my car, my friend's '04 TSX, and my cousin's Integra. Against my better judgement, I ordered the ASL rather than the new 0W-30 (AZO?) I called Amsoil to see what the deal was, and all they would tell me was that 0W-30 is going to have better cold start protection...duh. The only advantage I can see of the 5W-30 is it has less shearing weight loss or something? Can anyone shed some light on this?
 
You car originally specs a 5W-30 oil, not a 0W-30 oil. Therefore, the guide will recommend an Amsoil 5W-30, of which there are many. If Nissan didn't 'allow' the use of 0W-30 as an option (something GM does, for example), then they would not recommend a 0W-30 grade of oil.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
You car originally specs a 5W-30 oil, not a 0W-30 oil. Therefore, the guide will recommend an Amsoil 5W-30, of which there are many. If Nissan didn't 'allow' the use of 0W-30 as an option (something GM does, for example), then they would not recommend a 0W-30 grade of oil.
That doesn't really make any sense, though? Nissan doesn't "allow" the use of oils that aren't API certified, yet the first recommendation is a 5W30 oil which isn't API-certified? I'm voting 'software glitch. I'm curious since this has been brought up before but no one from Amsoil has commented on it? None of the 0W oils come up on the recommendations chart for most vehicles. If you think about it, there are very few cars out there which officially "allow" the use of 0W oils--so if that's their criteria for recommending it, they should probably just stop selling it. To the OP, that's what I used in my '93 SER. I was really pleased with it, and with the tiny sump I think it's a really good choice to use a shear-resistant synthetic oil in that car. I'd stick w/ the 0W30. Did they ever increase the sump capacity in those cars?
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
I'm curious since this has been brought up before but no one from Amsoil has commented on it? None of the 0W oils come up on the recommendations chart for most vehicles. If you think about it, there are very few cars out there which officially "allow" the use of 0W oils--so if that's their criteria for recommending it, they should probably just stop selling it.
Well said.
 
Thanks for all the responses. Long live the SR20! I'm sorry to say it's been almost two months since I've driven her, and about a year since I changed the oil! The sump capacity is right around a gallon. I do have about half a gallon of the 0W-30 left, so I should be able to achieve a 50/50 blend starting into winter. While mechically rock solid at 250,000 miles(!) she does and always had an appetite for makeup oil, so the 0W will be pretty much diluted by the next change. I've owned this car for 5.5 years since 150k, and the only thong I've had to replace under the hood (that I remember) is the starter...and a tranny. Lol Kind of a freak thing: Apparently the input shaft seal went (that [censored] Amsoil MTL ;-) and all the gear lube was lubricating my clutch instead, which oddly enough didn't cause any symptoms in the clutch. My SE has the performance package, which uses a viscous LSD, and boy are they hard to find, run you about a grand. So I had the "grand" idea to make a six speed SE-R helical LSD tranny work. They can be had for less than $500. $3500 later it was installed by someone who knew what they were doing, and a few month after that I became and over the road truck driver. Now I don't even know how to drive a car! It's really sweet but it's kinda all for naught, especially since the body and paint has gone all to [censored].
 
Originally Posted By: Unleashedbeast
Amsoil's legal department will only allow them to recommend the specific weight spec'd by the manufacturer. This is a cover your "buns" approach IMO.
Agreed! It must have something to do with the legal dept. A while back Amsoil was recommending SSO for just about anything with 4 wheels on it, including my 08 Liberty which clearly states use 5W20 only. Now they are probably just covering themselves thats all.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: addyguy
If you think about it, there are very few cars out there which officially "allow" the use of 0W oils-
Well I have thought about it, and most cars now are spec'd for 0W-XX oils. That includes most if not all European cars and the Japanese manufacturers. And for the rest there's no restriction from using a 0W-XX oil per se. Additionally, you've got the weight of a company the size of EOM saying the use of their 0W-20 in a 5W-20 app' will not void any warranty and the same goes for their 0W-30.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: addyguy
If you think about it, there are very few cars out there which officially "allow" the use of 0W oils-
Well I have thought about it, and most cars now are spec'd for 0W-XX oils. That includes most if not all European cars and the Japanese manufacturers. And for the rest there's no restriction from using a 0W-XX oil per se. Additionally, you've got the weight of a company the size of EOM saying the use of their 0W-20 in a 5W-20 app' will not void any warranty and the same goes for their 0W-30.
By "most" I mean "most cars currently on the road". No US cars of which I'm aware "allow" 0W oils, Hyundai and Nissan do not "allow" 0W oils, and most Toyotas and Hondas on the road do not mention 0W oils--cars which Toyota has specifically back-spec'd for 5W 20 haven't been back spec'd for 0w20. Yes, I'm completely aware that this makes no sense. You'll get no argument from me about the superiority of the 0W oils; I talking specifically about mfg recommendations.
 
JOD I was just janking your chain really. But no manufacturer actually prohibits the use of 0W-XX oils that I'm aware of. It's come up before, most recently with Hyundai that specify a 5W-20 and if you ask if you can run a syn 0W-20, they'll say no. But that's an interpretation of what is specified. I've never seen the 0W-XX grade actually formally disallowed in the drivers manual or any other factory document.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
You car originally specs a 5W-30 oil, not a 0W-30 oil. Therefore, the guide will recommend an Amsoil 5W-30....
This is it. I've been waiting for this change. Amsoil has been saying for quite some time to stay within bounds of the warranty (my words) the called for viscosity must be used.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: addyguy
You car originally specs a 5W-30 oil, not a 0W-30 oil. Therefore, the guide will recommend an Amsoil 5W-30....
This is it. I've been waiting for this change. Amsoil has been saying for quite some time to stay within bounds of the warranty (my words) the called for viscosity must be used.
That one reason why I respect EOM when they come out and say their 0W-20 can be used where 5W-20 is specified and their 0W-30 where a 5W-30 is specified AND it will not void any manufacturers warranty.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: addyguy
You car originally specs a 5W-30 oil, not a 0W-30 oil. Therefore, the guide will recommend an Amsoil 5W-30....
This is it. I've been waiting for this change. Amsoil has been saying for quite some time to stay within bounds of the warranty (my words) the called for viscosity must be used.
That one reason why I respect EOM when they come out and say their 0W-20 can be used where 5W-20 is specified and their 0W-30 where a 5W-30 is specified AND it will not void any manufacturers warranty.
Amsoil used to say this, but it's not true. Mobil is just doing what Amsoil used to do, again. Funny thing is, of course, the BITOG group think will agree with you. I know it makes no difference and is in most cases better to use the 0W-X0, but it is not within the strict guidelines of, again, most OEM manuals. Manufacturers can try and deny and may actually be successful in denying an engine (oil) related claim if you don't use the EXACT viscosity (or one of the viscosities) in the owners manual. Just like the API and other sanctioning body discussions - it really depends on the exact wording in the manual.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Amsoil used to say this, but it's not true.
It's just as true as recommending an oil that's not API certified, isn't it? That's the part I don't get. A 0WXX oil "meets or exceeds" the grade requirements. For me at least, that's the disconnect that I don't really get. Based on that logic, Amsoil shouldn't be recommending any oil that's not API certified, IMO.
 
All of Chryslers 6.1 engines are specifically recommended to use 0W-40 and further specify a ridiculous 3000 mile interval. I would be very cautious about imagining that you could make EOM back up anything it said. In my personal experience Amsoil has proven to be quite accessible and informative when contacted directly.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Amsoil used to say this, but it's not true.
It's just as true as recommending an oil that's not API certified, isn't it? That's the part I don't get. A 0WXX oil "meets or exceeds" the grade requirements. For me at least, that's the disconnect that I don't really get. Based on that logic, Amsoil shouldn't be recommending any oil that's not API certified, IMO.
No. There is a key difference. The viscosity is a "hard" number (yeah we know it's a range, etc). You can't just use different than recommended viscosities and not expect some warranty repercussions if some engine problem pops up. You can't use wrong filter numbers or other parts not specified for the car. With API, as long as the oil meets the performance requirements (which Amsoil does), it does not need to be certified. I've been writing this for many many moons - people just take the side they like to root for, rather than using their critical reasoning skills. I mean look at Caterham's statement right in this thread. Did he ever "respect" Amsoil when they recommended 0W-20/0W-30 in XW-X0 applications? Am I saying 0W-XX oils will cause any problems? If you think this, then you aren't reading closely enough.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
No. There is a key difference. The viscosity is a "hard" number (yeah we know it's a range, etc). You can't just use different than recommended viscosities and not expect some warranty repercussions if some engine problem pops up. You can't use wrong filter numbers or other parts not specified for the car. With API, as long as the oil meets the performance requirements (which Amsoil does), it does not need to be certified. I've been writing this for many many moons - people just take the side they like to root for, rather than using their critical reasoning skills. I mean look at Caterham's statement right in this thread. Did he ever "respect" Amsoil when they recommended 0W-20/0W-30 in XW-X0 applications? Am I saying 0W-XX oils will cause any problems? If you think this, then you aren't reading closely enough.
I understand what you're saying, I just disagree with it; define "wrong filter numbers?". The only filter number given in my owner's manual is an 820S. Does that mean any other filter will void my warranty? Of course not, as long as it meets the specifications. And a "0W" oil meets the specifications of a "5W" oil--it simply exceeds them. This is not analogous to running a 30W oil in a car spec'd for 20W (something Amsoil used to recommend as well), or a 20W oil in a car spec'd for 30W because you think it's OK. The requirements and specs, are, indeed different; but that's a totally different deal, as you well know. Personally, yes, I respected the fact that Amsoil included 0W recommendations, and I'm disappointed they went down this road. It's only going to add to the confusion, and people thinking that 0W30 is "too thin". Amsoil's 0W30 SSO/AZO was always it's marque product, at least in my mind. And while I'm sure you'll continue to recommend it to people, can you name a singe vehicle for which this oil will be now be "recommended" by the site's search engine? I really can't thing of a single one. That doesn't make much sense to me. I realize we'll have to agree to disagree, but I honestly still don't see the difference between this and the API certification thing, since a 0W oil has to meet the exact same specifications as the 5W variant--it just exceeds them. And as you know, this is a concept that some folks still have difficulty wrapping their heads around--and this will just makes things worse. Lastly, I'll just ask:have you ever heard of a single instance of someone having a warranty claim denied for using a 0W30 oil in place of 5W30 (or 0W20 in place of 5W20)?
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
I understand what you're saying, I just disagree with it; define "wrong filter numbers?". The only filter number given in my owner's manual is an 820S. Does that mean any other filter will void my warranty? Of course not, as long as it meets the specifications. And a "0W" oil meets the specifications of a "5W" oil--it simply exceeds them.
By "wrong filter numbers" I meant other than Amsoil/Fram/Wix/M1/Pur/etc recommended number. Absolutely an issue. I guess you can say "0W" exceeds "5W" as does "5W" exceeds "10W"......
Originally Posted By: JOD
Lastly, I'll just ask:have you ever heard of a single instance of someone having a warranty claim denied for using a 0W30 oil in place of 5W30 (or 0W20 in place of 5W20)?
I've definitely heard of lame service advisers saying stupid "too thin" junk about 0W's (or "never heard of it"). Warranty denied? No, never.
 
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