Jaso has differnt ratings, not all are about motorcycles
Ive seen some Non jaso MA2 oils have better clutch grip than Rated MA2 oils.
Jaso on the bottle means jack, from my experience, you have to test the stuff
Amsoil metric oil
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Ive seen some Non jaso MA2 oils have better clutch grip than Rated MA2 oils.
Jaso on the bottle means jack, from my experience, you have to test the stuff
We're talking about motorcycle oil here that meets the JASO MA/MA1/MA2 specs. What JASO spec are you talking about that's not applicable to motorcycles with a wet clutch?
Specifically what oils with JASO and non-JASO rating used in what bike?
I'm not going to "experiment" with oils in my bikes that don't say they meet the JASO MA (or MA1/MA2) spec. If I happen to get a JASO rated oil that seems to not work correctly, then I'll try another one that's JASO rated. I've never had any clutch performance issues with any JASO rated oil.
Test the stuff. As in put it in a bike to see if the clutch slips or not? One thing I agree with BLS if clutches slip its not the oil. I would like to hear from folks that have had JASO oil slip a clutch on a newer bike, not a higher mileage or older bike that has sat around for years like a barn find.
Full synthetic is full synthetic. I highly doubt any study, no matter how scientific, would find results showing Amsoil reduces engine wear any more than any other full synthetic, and if it did, the difference would be so minute it would be negligible...
But wear reduction isn’t a “feature” of a synthetic oil. It’s oxidation resistance, reduction in deposits and sludge, and cold-weather performance. Those contribute to a longer OCI which is a secondary advantage.
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The term “full synthetic” doesn’t really specify anything, considering it encompasses everything from 50/50 group 2/3 blends to 100% pao. There’s a great range in the type and quality of VIIs used, the base oil chemistry, and additive packs of various “full synthetic” oils.
Given that we fundamentally disagree on whether oils are “the same” or not, I am just going to explain my logic for running Amsoil in my bike in case it helps others. It’s totally ok if you disagree and run Supertech, there is nothing wrong with that.
I run Amsoil because I don’t want to change my bike’s oil every season. I just want to spontaneously hop on and ride whenever the weather gets nice. My own research leads me to believe that Amsoil is more resistant to shear, moisture, foaming, and oxidation than other moto oils when doing extended drain intervals. I also have good clutch feel using it, which in my admittedly subjective opinion stays more consistent over the course of the interval than with other oils.
Moreover, with a 2.5qt sump, the price difference per change is a negligible $10. That is not something worth any time wasted thinking about in my particular situation, especially since I run 2 year intervals.
There have been few posters in this forum saying their clutch slipped due to the oil used. They changed the oil back and the slippage stopped.
True ... wear is correlated with the HTHS viscosity (resulting in the MOFT between moving parts) and the AF/AW additive package of the oil, regardless if it's conventional or synthetic oil.
Thanks Zee. Not making light of it, but maybe there is some magic pixie dust in oil formulations that no one can identify causing those anomalies.
Exactly. Look at the oil analysis of the oils and you see there’s NO secret sauce in, or left out, of Motorcycle oils. It’s a fairytale that’s been repeated so many times it’s become gospel.
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Oil analysis only reveals the elemental composition of the additives, not so much the molecular and organic composition.
And only those elements that are analyzed.
Wear reduction is a feature of ALL oils...if it doesn't reduce wear, then why use it?
I wouldn't run ANY oil for longer than a year, regardless of mileage...
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It seems like you believe that there’s no difference between various brands and product lines of oils but there is a difference between low-mile year-old oil and new oil.
Interesting take. What data are you basing this belief on?
IDK what he meant, but DH-1 and Global DHD-1 come immediately to mind, which means that anyone just quickly scanning the back of most any heavy diesel engine oil will see "JASO" right there in the list. Just not MA nor MB nor anything related to motorcycles or their wet clutches.
MB is another that _IS_ applicable to motorcycle-type vehicles, and it part of T-903, but is generally considered not-suitable for wet clutch use. It's listed on engine oils in bike shops, though.
One of the myriad problems of sloppy language in this realm is the concept of "meets." I find that far too many motorcyclists only think of wet clutches when they think of JASO (if they're aware of it at all). However, in the realm of wet clutches only, saying no more than "meets JASO" (which I don't think any product says only that) is to say absolutely nothing, because it's not a 'meet' or 'doesn't meet' situation. It's merely a rating letter to tell you roughly where along a frictional continuum the fluid falls.
To "meet JASO" overall, one has to also think of wear control, deposit control, oxidation resistance, and the full range of API gasoline engine oil certification tests, because JASO T-903 requires a fluid to pass them.
Well not all oils. Sometimes primary considerations are fuel economy or deposit control. Wear isn’t a major problem with any commercial oil however, as long as the HT/HS is sufficient for the operating conditions and engine design.
Race oils for example may not have wear control as a primary concern.
Oil sitting in a crankcase for a year or more goes through many temp changes, which creates moisture. Oil brand has no effect on this process, and moisture in the CC is bad thing...
I'll ask my previous question again, if wear isn't a concern, why use oil at all?
I'm sure you think that is some sort of relevant question but it makes no sense. Who would use no oil in their engine? It's a silly argument.
For me personally, wear is relatively far down the list of what I care about. The oils I use have sufficient HT/HS to get me where I want to go. I care about those other attributes more than wear.
But maybe that's just me.
