Nothing like the products of combustion however. Plus the moisture needs heat and sulfur oxides to do much.
Amsoil metric oil
- Thread starter tjakes680
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Well obviously anyone with a motorcycle should understand what the different JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Organization) oil ratings are. They shouldn't be using anything but JASO MA/MA1/MA2 for a motorcycle wet clutch.
Here's a good article on all the different JASO oil ratings.
https://rymax-lubricants.com/updates/what-does-the-jaso-oil-specification-mean
When and oil bottle or a website of an oil maker says the oil meets JASO, it also shows which JASO spec because there are more than just MA/MA1/MA2 for motorcycle wet clutch use.
A discussed in many of these motorcycle JASO oil threads, the JASO identification can be sloppy and confusing. See post 60. If it says 'Meets JASO MA2" for instance, but isn't shown in the official JASO T903 registration list, then the oil buyer must only trust that the marking on the bottle is meeting JASO MA2. Like said earlier, I wouldn't use any motor oil in my bikes unless it said it meets JASO on the bottle, even if it wasn't registered officially with JASO. That's still better IMO than using oil that has zero JASO rating associated with the oil.
That's why using a motorcycle oil meeting JASO T903 is better than using an oil with zero JASO spec. Those oils typically are blended to protect the transmission gears in the shared sump than non-JASO rated oil.
Not putting this out in the wrong spirit, however, someone within the industry, either current or retired, or anywhere in between would be able to identify what is a friction modifier with respect to an analysis at any level. That's all I'm wanting to get across. Friction modifier's by the way they have presented for decades would be added elements, nothing to do with the base oil as it's refined. I'm still wondering how an oil contains friction modifier or doesn't and what one is...
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Depends on the environmental conditions.
Saying preventing wear isn't a top priority is silly...IT IS THE MAIN REASON ENGINES REQUIRE OIL....all of the other benefits are secondary to this...
Maybe if you live in an environment where the temp is the same 24/7/365, and there's never any humidity, but I know of no place like that on this planet...
Like so many of your posts here, you half understand what is being said (your use of capital letters notwithstanding). Nowhere did I state that wear protection isn't important, but the reality is that any fully-formulated oil on the market is able to prevent wear assuming the HT/HS is sufficient. Wear control may have been a significant issue years ago but it isn't any more. Any current improvements on wear control are incremental.
What is more than incremental is the ability of a modern oil is to prevent deposits, ash, and prevent issues such as ring sticking. This is where any significant difference exists today.
You get some things partially correct in this thread, much like the concern you have over water. But you fail to grasp that environmental humidity is neither the main source nor is it especially detrimental. Water from combustion plus the heat from that combustion, added to the mixed sulfur oxides still present in fuel is far more important. It's one of the reasons sulfur has been mostly eliminated from gasoline and it's why TBN has become relatively less important in motor oils.
I highly doubt the difference between Amsoil and ST would ever result in any verifiable difference in engine life, in any engine, which is why I use the less expensive oil...if anyone can show me proof to the contrary, I will change my tune...
I have no idea what your tune is. I suspect one but I don't know.
My tune is that brand doesn't matter, and I challenge anyone to prove that using one brand over another is going to make a noticeable difference in engine life...
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Shear is the primary concern. High-strung wet clutch motorcycles are very prone to quickly shearing oil. This can lead to clutch feel changes.
Different viscosity modifiers have different abilities to resist shear. Certain oils outperform others in this respect.
It is not really about engine life. It’s about maintaining clutch consistency and, to a lesser degree, clutch life. Moreover, it is about prolonging the interval.
None of this really makes a big difference though and it is a waste of time to keep bickering. Some people are willing to spend an extra $10 once or twice a year for the prospect of slightly more shear resistance. I hope you can deal with that.
Why would I care about which oil other people spend their money on? If that person gets a warm fuzzy using some boutique brand, it's his money. The way I deal with it is by using less expensive oil. It's never let me down so far...
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If less expensive oil ever lets you down will you report your findings to BITOG? Thank you.
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If I used a 5W-30 that was just a conventional oil vs a 5W-30 full synthetic and ran them both at 10K OCIs until the vehicle had 200K miles on it, the engine will most likely be in better shape due to the synthetic oil. Now if you only did 2K-5K OCIs, then the difference might not be that much.
Also, some oils do have more AF/AW additives than others, and that factor certainly could have an impact on total engine wear over the long run. AF/AW additives and the tribofilm they produce (aka the "film strength" of the oil) does have an impact on wear. Different brand oils in the same multi-viscosity grade also have more HTHS viscosity than the other, and that too can have an impact on engine wear. More HTHS will give more wear protection, as discussed in 100s of threads.
This implies that they would purposefully make a product that was not good for the application. I find that hard to believe.
Since we are all talking "sciencey" here....could it also have been that the Amsoil could have made something more quiet, thus allowing the "valve" noise to be more audible?
I think some look at boutique oils as magic in a bottle, and expect some other worldly result, and when that result is not met.........it has to be that the product sucks.
Amsoil makes top quality products. I have no doubt that if there was a failure having to do with their product, they would move mountains to make it right, their business model depends on it. If one person lost an engine due to their product being bad..........probably game over......same as HPL, etc.
I think with motorcycles with shared sumps, there is a circumstance where one bike or perhaps brand of bike, just dont agree as good with one oil as opposed to the other, different clutch feel and engagement etc.....
All most have is feel and hear, and unfortunately youtube.
I'm glad you brought this up. Though not a MC oil, I ran nothing but conventional oil in my '04 Corolla until it wasn't available any longer (this is when everything went to either a blend, or a full syn). It was at that point I switched to a full syn because it wasn't priced much higher than a blend, so I thought it was a batter value. The Corolla had 148K miles when I bought in 2012, and it now has 449K. I was doing 6K OCIs with the dino, and I still do that OCI with the full syn. This car still runs and drives fine, though it is using more oil these days. It goes through ~ 2 qts per OCI now. Would it now not be using any oil, or using less had I been running something like an Amsoil? I don't know, but I'd say this engine has held up fairly well for having this many miles. As far a MC oils go, I've been using the ST full syn in all of my bikes for many years now without a single engine, or clutch problem. Granted, I'll never put 400K+ miles on a bike, but it hasn't let me down so far, so I have no reason to switch brands...
Okay what do you want to know.
I ran 2 oils for years, mainly dyno oil ma2, and occasional ran the synthetic ma2 for 1 change in between(same brand of oil). I did a top end rebuild and decided to go with the full syn ma2 of the same brand exclusively.
well down the road, the bike felt weak on full throttle on hard pulls, the clutch was mildly slipping just enough, I got a new clutch higher spring rate and same issue, I replaced the clutch pack and same issue, ***?
Cant be the oil? swapped back to Dino MA2 and no more issues, that was a few years ago.
I had like 10 bottles of the ma2 syn, goes in the car or lawn mowers now.
I know all syn ma2's dont have an issue, but this one did on my particular clutch,
other wise about 20 years ago, had an issue with another bike with Redline, which happened to be the MB formula motocyle oil, I thought it was in my head for weeks, but went to a big mountain, and full throttle and hit top gear clutch breaking loose like crazy, went home, installed known good clutch oil at the time (rotella), went back to mountain and no more issue.
JASO MB is not for wet clutch use, so it's no surprise it slipped.
True , but like I say that was 20 years ago, right around when Jaso specs became a thing
I ran car oil in mc race bike transmissions for years without issue, wouldnt do that today.
the 70,80's and 90's car oil, I outlasted people running Belray gear saver.
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