American-brand cars prove poipular with millennial

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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: cchase

A quick Google has a 1982 GTI at 8.1 seconds to 60 and 16.36 at 85 mph in the 1/4 mile.

A 1983 Z28 Camaro is listed at 6.6 to 60, and 14.8 through the 1/4 mile at an unlisted speed.

So not sure your source for that. There's a world of difference betwen 8.1 and 6.6, handling aside.


I'm talking about the standard (NON Z28) Camaro that most folks could afford.

Not only that but the Rabbit GTI also out handled it as well.


You did an almost great job of removing the original quote.

mechanicx specifically referred to the Z28 Camaro, to which you quoted and replied that a GTI would beat it.

Nice try. Just for references sake:



Originally Posted By: mechanicx

. What car would I have wanted in '82 or '83? A Z28 Camaro of course.


Originally Posted By: antiqueshell


Bet you didn't know that back then a
VW Rabbit GTI would BEAT that Camaro 0-60. LOL Not to mention it handled better too.


I highlighted "that" since you must have missed that just now. But nice try on trying to change the debate to suit your needs when you get called out.
 
I will say that the VW's of that day would easily outhandle the Camaro. Mine didn't even have a swaybar. The Scirocco was really fast and could handle too.
 
Of course they would outhandle a Camaro, they were probably 5 feet shorter and at least 500 lbs lighter!
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Originally Posted By: Silverado12
I will say that the VW's of that day would easily outhandle the Camaro. Mine didn't even have a swaybar. The Scirocco was really fast and could handle too.


Not too sure about that either.

I remember reading an article about how one motojounalist could lap Laguna Seca faster in his 6.6 Trans Am than he could on his Kawasaki Z1.

Of course in my early teenage mind, that was impossible. No way some 3800lb 200 hp Smokey and the Bandit car could think of taking on the mighty Z1 with it's massive four cylinder. I mean Mad Max had to have a supercharger on his Australian Cleveland just to keep up with the bad guy bikie Z1s.

I later found out how BMW had stayed competitive with the R90 vs the Z1. Handling. The Kawi flat out gunned the Beemer in horsepower.

that's how a 2nd gen F-body could lap faster than the far superior hp:weight Z1. And that was a second gen F-body. The 3rd's handling was improved even more.
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It's hard to say but interesting. The optioning and ordering system had many combinations. One thing is Camaros had to be about the most tinkered with, hacked up and abused models by owners. If you aren't the 1st owner there's a good chance someone modified, tinkered or destroyed it lol. If it wasn't a Z28 most likely the engine wasn't really an L69. It's possible someone swapped in the dual snorkel air cleaner but it takes a lot more than that to make it into an L69.


8th digit was a "G" in the VIN.
21.gif
That I do remember. At the time I thought "H" (for H.O.) was the good VIN designator. I looked it up at work and learned that "H" was the LG4. My friend had the higher performance engine. (and subsequently felt better about his ability to leave my Daytona so hard from a standing start)


But you would look at it and it was this creme colored plain Jane Camaro with brown stamped rallye wheels (brown!) The only reason you would not think it was a 4-cyl is that it did not have plastic wheel covers and had the second outlet on the muffler


That's interesting. I think 8th digit G was the L69 engine from '83-'86. I wonder what year was it and did it have a 5 speed? If we had the complete VIN we could probably figure it all out. That being the case I think it's good that you could possibly get the top motor in the base model.
 
A GTI or Scirroco could maybe out handle a 2nd generation Camaro, but I thought we were talking about the '82 up 3rd generation Camaro. According to Car and Driver it was rated the best handling car in America. And only the Porsche 944 was considered marginally better handling. So if it took a Porsche 944, the European/foreign car handling champ, then how would a VW stand a chance?

http://www.thirdgen.org/besthandlingamericancarpart2-caranddriver-oct1984

http://www.thirdgen.org/besthandlingamericancar-caranddriver-may1984
 
Originally Posted By: cchase

mechanicx specifically referred to the Z28 Camaro, to which you quoted and replied that a GTI would beat it.

Nice try. Just for references sake:



mechanicx said:
What car would I have wanted in '82 or '83? A Z28 Camaro of course.




That's what she said. If we are talking '82 to '84, I'd want a Camaro Z28. And if it was '85 to about '89, I'd want IROC or Firebird Formula. No other car foreign or not near the price range would really out run it or out handle it. Especially not some doozied up econobox
48.gif
. Anyone saying different is just using revisionist history and didn't read the links from the time period posted. Not to mention the Camaro was way more fun to drive, stylish and cool IMO.
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
You take the import. I'll take the ole Camaro.

See you at VIR or any large popular venue for track day!


Streets of Willow? You'll be chasing a solid live axle/parallelogram steering 135 hp 1984 13B RX-7 GSL-SE.

Big Willow? Yeah....that half-mile front straight is in the L69's favor
 
But when Golden's son, Daniel, 23, was looking for a new car, he opted for a Ford Fiesta, despite his father’s suggestion that he buy a Toyota Camry or Corolla.

Understandable....I bought all domestic until I realized how much they cost to operate and repair. But I didn't buy my first new car until after age 30. Now I drive only Toyota or Honda products. Daniel will learn the hard way.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
A GTI or Scirroco could maybe out handle a 2nd generation Camaro, but I thought we were talking about the '82 up 3rd generation Camaro. According to Car and Driver it was rated the best handling car in America. And only the Porsche 944 was considered marginally better handling. So if it took a Porsche 944, the European/foreign car handling champ, then how would a VW stand a chance?

http://www.thirdgen.org/besthandlingamericancarpart2-caranddriver-oct1984

http://www.thirdgen.org/besthandlingamericancar-caranddriver-may1984


I had an 87 944S that I bought new and there was no American car that could even come close to the handling capability of that car. It had an exact 50-50 weight distribution and was extremely forgiving. You could do freeway entrance/exit loops at 100mph and not break the Pirelli tires loose. It would cruise with the cruise control on at 140 all day smooth as silk. It was a great car. A Camaro or Firebird was a pig by comparison.
 
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Well the 944 was Car and Driver's import car handling champ facing off against the American car handling champ. You probably didn't read the article and that the Z28 was very competitive handling wise with the 944. The 944 wasn't perfect either. '87 IROCS had even higher levels of handling and power and honestly would walk all over an '87 944. You could buy a 'vette for the price of a 944. So calling the Camaro/Firebird a pig in comparison is just your anti-GM bias like always.
 
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Originally Posted By: Doog
But when Golden's son, Daniel, 23, was looking for a new car, he opted for a Ford Fiesta, despite his father’s suggestion that he buy a Toyota Camry or Corolla.

Understandable....I bought all domestic until I realized how much they cost to operate and repair. But I didn't buy my first new car until after age 30. Now I drive only Toyota or Honda products. Daniel will learn the hard way.


Good for you. Anyone can say anything, but it doesn't mean it's true or they know what they're talking about.
 
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
I don't know where some of this stuff comes from either. Compare import car parts prices to GM. They can be 5X or more the price.


I wish I'd known that a few years ago; I now have 3 mortgages on the house, 5 credit cards bouncing of their credit limits, and my wife, son, and I have to sell our plasma twice a month. I guess hindsight IS 20/20...
 
For my first "new" car purchase I plan on in the next 2 years I'm considering Ford or Subaru. The only Toyota I buy will need to have a circle-L on it. I was never a Honda person and the only current Toyota that appeals to me is the Venza. Maybe the Prius V if it was offered in AWD form.

I miss the Toyota of the 1980s-1990s.
frown.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Well the 944 was Car and Driver's import car handling champ facing off against the American car handling champ. You probably didn't read the article and that the Z28 was very competitive handling wise with the 944. The 944 wasn't perfect either. '87 IROCS had even higher levels of handling and power and honestly would walk all over an '87 944. You could buy a 'vette for the price of a 944. So calling the Camaro/Firebird a pig in comparison is just your anti-GM bias like always.


The Z-28 couldn't hold a candle to the 944...you are correct I didn't read the article...however I did drive more than 20,000 miles on each of those cars in the late 1980's. So you can pretend that GM made a car that remotely came close to the style and handling of a Porsche 944 but that is simply not true. Plus a 1987 Corvette was a nose heavy pig that couldn't get out of it's own way.
 
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Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Doog
But when Golden's son, Daniel, 23, was looking for a new car, he opted for a Ford Fiesta, despite his father’s suggestion that he buy a Toyota Camry or Corolla.

Understandable....I bought all domestic until I realized how much they cost to operate and repair. But I didn't buy my first new car until after age 30. Now I drive only Toyota or Honda products. Daniel will learn the hard way.


Good for you. Anyone can say anything, but it doesn't mean it's true or they know what they're talking about.


Exactly...your claims about the Z-28 are proof of that. No doubt Car & Driver was a shill for the deep pockets at GM.
 
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Originally Posted By: Silverado12
I don't know where some of this stuff comes from either. Compare import car parts prices to GM. They can be 5X or more the price.


Well:

1. You are looking in the wrong place. Toyota & Honda parts are not imports anymore as many are made in the USA.
2. Toyotas and Hondas don't require parts replacement as much as GM

This is all evidenced by the new car reliability rankings over the past few decades.
 
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