Am I killing my car with TLC?

[KrisZ]

All I know is that "babying" the car, or in other word treating it as if it were your first born is just plain old silly, for lack of a better word.
It's an inanimate object that has a purpose to serve and whether you're babying it or using it in any other fashion that is within the design envelope, it will make no difference in it's lifecycle, provided that proper maintenance is done in both cases.

There are so many variables that you face on the road every single day, like crazy drivers, poor road conditions, pot holes etc. that any of them can potentially scrap your car in a millisecond or cause great deal of damage.

Just drive it, maintain it and enjoy it.

 

[440Magnum]

The only things I see that I would consider actually harmful are the warming up and the never getting above 2000 RPM. Don't warm it up for more than a minute, but keep the load light. Once it is fully warm, use a little more RPM from time to time. Helps keep the carbon buildup down. Some vehicles even develop high oil consumption because the rings are prone to sticking if you don't occasionally rev the thing up enough to make the rings move around on the piston the way they're designed to.

 

[Finz]

Fair enough... So many recommend increasing the rpm's, I'd be foolish to ignore

I'm glad I asked and greatly appreciate all the input

 

[Finz]

I don't know that I can agree with this Kris... At least not the way I'm reading it

The Design Envelope.... Can mean so many things to so many different people

The "soccer mom" Light turns green and she nails it for 1,000 feet until the next light then stands on the brakes

Me: Light turns green... I meander my way for 1,000 feet and end up right next to the soccer mom at the light

We both change oil as per rec's... Rotate tires, use good gas, ...

At the end of the day, same wear numbers? No creaks or rattles?

 

[fdcg27]

This thing is a Honda. It was born to rev and doing so won't hurt it.
Of the five stick Hondas we've had, all of them saw redline on a fairly regular basis and all lasted a long time. Our old '97 is still running great at 210K with its new owner, who is very happy with it.
You really don't need to change the oil with M1 as often as you do and you really don't need to run the car so slowly on the highway. Neither hurts the car in any way, but you're not really extending the life of the package, either, since rust will kill this car in the area in which you live long before mechanical failure does.
For that matter, in the nation's most densely populated state, a total loss accident is a real risk and it doesn't take all that much damage to total a nine year old car.
Relax, drive and use the car and lay off all of the additives.
They really aren't needed and may be harmful.

 

[shadow7]

Originally Posted By: Finz
I don't know that I can agree with this Kris... At least not the way I'm reading it

The Design Envelope.... Can mean so many things to so many different people

The "soccer mom" Light turns green and she nails it for 1,000 feet until the next light then stands on the brakes

Me: Light turns green... I meander my way for 1,000 feet and end up right next to the soccer mom at the light

We both change oil as per rec's... Rotate tires, use good gas, ...

At the end of the day, same wear numbers? No creaks or rattles?


That soccer mom's brake pads will wear down faster and she will spend more $ at the gas station.

 

[thr_wedge]

Assuming 2 cars with proper maintenance, the same miles, and waiting to beat on the car until it's warned up, you'd probably be unable to tell then apart in 15 years. The car that got driven hard will be more expensive to maintain running through brakes tires gas suspension faster.

Drive however you want.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: shadow7
Originally Posted By: Finz
I don't know that I can agree with this Kris... At least not the way I'm reading it

The Design Envelope.... Can mean so many things to so many different people

The "soccer mom" Light turns green and she nails it for 1,000 feet until the next light then stands on the brakes

Me: Light turns green... I meander my way for 1,000 feet and end up right next to the soccer mom at the light

We both change oil as per rec's... Rotate tires, use good gas, ...

At the end of the day, same wear numbers? No creaks or rattles?


That soccer mom's brake pads will wear down faster and she will spend more $ at the gas station.


Yup, that's exactly how I see it as well. Hard driven cars will be more expensive to maintain because the wear items will wear out faster, but overall they should last about the same.
But let's not confuse hard driven cars with abused ones. Abuse and lack of maintenance will take its toll on any vehicle.

 

[y_p_w]

Auto or manual?

If you hear Jim Allen say it, the most important thing might be to clear out the crud from the transmission early in its life because most of the wear occurs within the first 10K miles or so.

With a manual transmission that's pretty easy since about 97% of the fluid is drained. Not so easy with an auto without some sort of fluid exchange device attached. I don't baby my wife's Civic, but I do want to take care of the fluids.

 

[Finz]

Auto trans... Wasn't able to find a 5 speed when I was shopping for the car.

Not much gunk on the drain plug at any drain but the first was probably the messiest.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Finz
Auto trans... Wasn't able to find a 5 speed when I was shopping for the car.

Not much gunk on the drain plug at any drain but the first was probably the messiest.

I finally did it on my wife's Civic at 65K miles last weekend. The plug was covered with black metallic gunk. When I wiped it off it looked like iron filings on a magnet like I remembered from hands-on science museums. I'm ready to do it again in a few weeks. Not sure about a third time though until maybe 90K miles.

After 65K miles the plug just refused to come off without lifting it and using a short breaker bar. Was told at the dealer that the washer will generally bond to the plug and transmission body and can take a lot of torque to separate. It made a loud pop and once loose was easy to remove. I've actually gotten some M18 copper washers because they're cheaper than Honda OEM and I'm told they should resist that kind of bonding.

 

[Finz]

I've read that 3 drain/refills over a fairly short number of miles... 20k maybe... Supposed to ensure a near-complete fluid change... I didn't go that route myself

The washers from honda are a ridiculous price at the dealer... Over $3 each I think

I think I'm paying about $9 or $10 for Honda's ATF. You?

Be interesting to see if your second drain shows as much of the filings on the plug as this first one

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Finz
I've read that 3 drain/refills over a fairly short number of miles... 20k maybe... Supposed to ensure a near-complete fluid change... I didn't go that route myself

The washers from honda are a ridiculous price at the dealer... Over $3 each I think

I think I'm paying about $9 or $10 for Honda's ATF. You?

Be interesting to see if your second drain shows as much of the filings on the plug as this first one

ATF change special at a dealer fairly close to where I work in Silicon Valley.

http://www.southbayhonda.com/honda-maintenance-parts-atf-change-kit-dealer-9258-sid-35634.html

$28.88 and tax for 4 quarts of DW-1 and a crush washer. Supposedly a coupon special, but I still get it if I point to the display on the counter showing the coupon. The receipt parts out the prices at $2.56 ($3.29 list) for the washer and $6.58 ($8.23 list) for each quart of DW-1. I'm not sure what happens if it's a car that uses the much cheaper M14 washer like pre-1990 Civics and Accords. My '89 Integra used the same washers as the oil drain plug for the ATF drain bolt. The last time the part guy automatically whipped out an M18 bagged single. The first time another guy asked me what model.

I found a local shop with loose washers in a plastic assortment box. They wanted 91 cents for M18 copper washers and I bought three. Probably don't need all of them, but they're cheap and nice to have. I even remember when I no longer had my Integra but had a bag of Honda oil drain plug crush washers. Had no real need for them until I married someone who had a Honda. Might have also worked if she had a Mazda.

Oh - have you replaced the power steering fluid? Not sure where the location would be on an Accord, but it's really easy on any Honda/Acura to do a service manual style purge. All it takes is pliers to remove the return hose, 1/2" O.D. tubing as an extension jammed into the return hose to collect the fluid, a 1 quart bottle (empty motor oil bottle works fine), and maybe 2 (3 to be sure) 12 oz bottles of Honda PSF. The one thing that I would recommend is that you have an assistant hold the collection container and whatever extension tube. That makes one less thing that could go wrong - i.e. the tube possibly shooting out of the container and spraying PSF on any belts. My wife's Civic had a nasty power steering pump whine, which went away with a little addition of Honda PSF to the max line. Turning effort was much easier after the complete purge. And some claim that air in the system will make things worse, but I've found that air is quickly purged from the system.

 

[fdcg27]

Go online and look for Curry Acura in New Jersey.
The'll sell you DW-1 for a little over seven bucks a quart shipped.
The Acura labeled fluid is actually a couple of dimes cheaper than that wearing the big H.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Good point about the power steering fluid. I do that with a simple turkey baster and after changing the original fluid in both of our vehicles, the steering system developed a lighter feel, which I prefer, and is generally more pleasant to use. I do a turkey baster fluid change every 15,000 miles on ours. It's only a few ounces of fluid, and with no filter in the system, I like keeping it clean.

 

[Finz]

That's a phenomenal deal on the tranny fluid... I asked a local deal a couple years ago and the said $85. I considered it as I had just spent $45 on the fluid and since I'd never done it before figured since I was here... But that was for my daughter's '98 accord and when I told the guy the car had 170k miles on it and had no idea if it had been changed before, he said they wouldn't do it.

I can understand that... Half the people online I asked said don't touch it as things might fall apart - guy at local auto parts store said the same.

But I figured it's an oil and needs to be changed... If something goes belly up after the fact, I could address it at that time. Besides, I'd never done it before and was anxious to try. What a difference it made... Nice smooth shifting and no leaks

I have changed the PS fluid but not that way... Just a turkey baster - out with the old, in with the new. Did this a few times and I bought the Prestone (for honda) at Walmart which was pretty cheap. Can't say I noticed a change but that's probably a good thing.

Stupid question: With the extension tube for PS, you just bled the fluid with gravity or was car running?

Also did a drain on the brake fluid. Again, no noticeable difference in performance but a good thing to do I think

I have to say, though, I've heard of people marrying because of money, but marrying because she had a honda and you had a drain plug washer? That's a first.

 

[Finz]

Thanks fdcg... I'll check that out. Curious: are you from around here? How do you know about this place being from OH?

 

[DriveHard]

I too drive only 60 even on the 4 lanes when commuting to and from work. Jumps my mpg by 2 versus keeping up with traffic and only takes about 2 more minutes to get to and from work.

I do, however, redline my truck about once every other tank to keep her clean and happy.

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: Finz
2. I rarely get the RPMs to anything over 2,000 - can't recall when it hit 2,500. Slow and steady wins the race -that's my motto. That applies to highway or around town

That's a bit extreme. It would be good to get your Honda above 3000 and exercise the VTEC camshift a bit. Also rapid accel to the top 5th gear gives better highway MPG. (5th is more efficient than lower gears.) 1500-1600 rpm gives the best fuel economy once you are in 5th.
...

You may be doing the engine more harm than good by driving so incredibly slowly. A Honda i-VTEC engine has a whole set of electronic and mechanical components you are not exercising. And 3000 isn't going to do it, it needs to be taken above 5k for the VTEC transition to occur. Plus its good habit to be in in order to clear carbon deposits. And of all makes, you certainly aren't going to be abusing a Honda by doing that. The engine was designed to sit up at red line much longer than any driver is able to keep it there on public roads.

And not for nothing but if you're on the eastern half of NJ, Parkway, TPK, 280, 287, 78, or on Rt 80 going across and you're doing 60mph, you're a hazard on the road. If things are moving the flow of traffic around here is 80mph easily.

 

[Finz]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: Finz
2. I rarely get the RPMs to anything over 2,000 - can't recall when it hit 2,500. Slow and steady wins the race -that's my motto. That applies to highway or around town

That's a bit extreme. It would be good to get your Honda above 3000 and exercise the VTEC camshift a bit. Also rapid accel to the top 5th gear gives better highway MPG. (5th is more efficient than lower gears.) 1500-1600 rpm gives the best fuel economy once you are in 5th.
...

You may be doing the engine more harm than good by driving so incredibly slowly. A Honda i-VTEC engine has a whole set of electronic and mechanical components you are not exercising. And 3000 isn't going to do it, it needs to be taken above 5k for the VTEC transition to occur. Plus its good habit to be in in order to clear carbon deposits. And of all makes, you certainly aren't going to be abusing a Honda by doing that. The engine was designed to sit up at red line much longer than any driver is able to keep it there on public roads.

And not for nothing but if you're on the eastern half of NJ, Parkway, TPK, 280, 287, 78, or on Rt 80 going across and you're doing 60mph, you're a hazard on the road. If things are moving the flow of traffic around here is 80mph easily.


Gofast... Thanks. This is exactly why I posted this thread. Carbon deposit removal is a given so I'll be bumping the RPMs more often

As for the bold face portion above, would you elaborate on this? What components? What transition? This is the kind of stuff I need to learn about more