All You Guys That Think OEM Recommended 16 or 20 Weight...

[OVERKILL]

Corrected it for you.

Well, they spray the bottom of the piston, but yes, the purpose is to draw heat away from the top of the piston, but they do it from the bottom; the spray hits the underside (bottom) of the piston.

 

[ka9mnx]

Do any of you remember when ford began specifying 5w20 in their f150's and they started dying due to increased stress and the oil not being able to handle it due to old oil system? 5w20 has gone a long way though since 2001.

I don't remember that. I used the original M1 5w-20 in my '58 Ford with the 300ci in the 1970's and I'm using 5w-20 in my '93 F150 with the 4.9l (300ci) engine (255k miles now).

 

[BMW Dom]

my dad run 20w50 in a 2020 camry, is it dead yet? no
clearances are not too tight to not let thick oil in.
These thin oils are for fuel economy.

Do any of you remember when ford began specifying 5w20 in their f150's and they started dying due to increased stress and the oil not being able to handle it due to old oil system? 5w20 has gone a long way though since 2001.

Then why do you use the thin 5w-20 in the Oddesy?

 

[OVERKILL]

Correct me if I'm wrong but about 15 years ago, NASCAR at least, made a rule change that after qualifying the engine couldn't be touched before the race. Engine oil couldn't be changed.

Can't find anything specifically that states that, but the cars run a dry sump, so you wouldn't need to open the engine to change the oil.

 

[xgmad]

Then why do you use the thin 5w-20 in the Oddesy?

because it doesn't see any abuse unlike every other car, its rpms range up to 3,000 for shifts and nothing more. I redline everything else.

 

[nthach]

Interesting they specify Dexos2 spec. I don't know how many times I been told that Dexos2 is strictly for gasoline engines.

AFAIK, Dexos2 is the “Euro” GM spec that’s for their Opel/Vauxhall/Saab gassers and their “passenger car” diesels based on ACEA Cx specs. dexos1 is strictly a gasoline engine standard based on the current API/ILSAC standards for gas engines for GM North America/Holden/Daewoo/GM China IIRC.

 

[ka9mnx]

Can't find anything specifically that states that, but the cars run a dry sump, so you wouldn't need to open the engine to change the oil.

I'll have to look this up. It came to my attention when I was chatting with my son about how teams were qualifying with thin oils and then changing to a different oil for the race. He said "Oh no. Everything, including the oil they qualified with, must remain throughout the race. This was quite a while ago but I searched it and he was correct.

 

[RDY4WAR]

I'm of the impression that they most definitely use very thin oils for qualifying but, depending on the event, may use a heavier oil (I'm sure the grade varies) depending on the length of the event and the track itself.

I don't know of any teams that change the oil between qualifying and race day unless they are also changing the engine. I don't believe they can change the oil legally anyway.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Can't find anything specifically that states that, but the cars run a dry sump, so you wouldn't need to open the engine to change the oil.

No dry sump allowed. Here's the official 2021 NASCAR rule book.
https://staffordmotorspeedway.com/wp-content/uploads/2021-NASCAR-Weekly-Rulebook.pdf

From the rule book shown below. Sounds like they can run whatever oil they want and there is no rule about having to use the same oil for the race as what was used for qualification. Of course, whatever oil they choose for the race needs to stay in the car for the race.

Oil Pans / Oil Coolers
20F-5.5.4 Page 77

The oil pans and oil coolers must be acceptable to Track Officials and meet the
following requirements:
A. The oil pan must remain as supplied from the approved supplier without any
modifications except when the General Motors “Upgrade” is used.
B. When the General Motors “Upgrade” engine is used the oil pans must be
constructed of magnetic steel and be a wet sump type and manufactured using a
standard production type pan with only a sump reservoir added to the bottom. All
bolt holes and bolt hole flanges must be visible. Kick-outs will not be permitted
between the bolt on flange and the top of the added sump. Spacers, other than
sealing gaskets, will not be permitted between the oil pan side rails and the engine
block surface.
C. Engine oil coolers may be either an oil to air or an oil to water heat
exchanger mounted forward of the engine firewall. Air ducts will not be permitted.
All oil coolers and the installation must be acceptable to Track Officials.


Oil
20F-8.1 Page 87

Any oil is permissible. Combustion enhancing additives will not be permitted.


Oiling System
20F-8.4 Page 88

A. Dry sump or air over oil systems will not be permitted. During the running of
the Race, oil must be added from the engine compartment. External oil pumps will
not be permitted.
B. Oil drain lines will not be permitted.
C. Inside valve cover oiling systems will not be permitted.
D. Quick disconnect fittings will not be permitted.
E. Heating pads, blankets or any other heating devices will not be permitted
for warming the oiling system.

 

[DougR]

The Australian 2020 Land Cruiser owners manual specifies engine oil viscosity ranging from 0W-20 to 15W-40. The Toyota 2020 1GR-FE engine sold in Europe has an oil viscosity specification ranging from 5W-30 to 20W-50. Viscosity difference is 15 points in the first value and 20 points in the second.

In the USA, Toyota recommends 0W-20 for my 1GR-FE engine. I think it will run just fine with 5W-30. I have found the difference in MPG to be either not discernable or no more than 0.1

 

[alarmguy]

deleted

 

[OVERKILL]

No dry sump allowed. Here's the official 2021 NASCAR rule book.
https://staffordmotorspeedway.com/wp-content/uploads/2021-NASCAR-Weekly-Rulebook.pdf

From the rule book shown below. Sounds like they can run whatever oil they want and there is no rule about having to use the same oil for the race as what was used for qualification. Of course, whatever oil they choose for the race needs to stay in the car for the race.

Oil Pans / Oil Coolers
20F-5.5.4 Page 77

The oil pans and oil coolers must be acceptable to Track Officials and meet the
following requirements:
A. The oil pan must remain as supplied from the approved supplier without any
modifications except when the General Motors “Upgrade” is used.
B. When the General Motors “Upgrade” engine is used the oil pans must be
constructed of magnetic steel and be a wet sump type and manufactured using a
standard production type pan with only a sump reservoir added to the bottom. All
bolt holes and bolt hole flanges must be visible. Kick-outs will not be permitted
between the bolt on flange and the top of the added sump. Spacers, other than
sealing gaskets, will not be permitted between the oil pan side rails and the engine
block surface.
C. Engine oil coolers may be either an oil to air or an oil to water heat
exchanger mounted forward of the engine firewall. Air ducts will not be permitted.
All oil coolers and the installation must be acceptable to Track Officials.


Oil
20F-8.1 Page 87

Any oil is permissible. Combustion enhancing additives will not be permitted.


Oiling System
20F-8.4 Page 88

A. Dry sump or air over oil systems will not be permitted. During the running of
the Race, oil must be added from the engine compartment. External oil pumps will
not be permitted.
B. Oil drain lines will not be permitted.
C. Inside valve cover oiling systems will not be permitted.
D. Quick disconnect fittings will not be permitted.
E. Heating pads, blankets or any other heating devices will not be permitted
for warming the oiling system.

I think it may be series specific, I saw plenty of references to dry sumps yesterday when I was searching.

For example, the Sprint Cup Car series:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a6652/5-ways-nascar-stock-engines-arent-actually-stock/

Racing engines use a dry sump system, which catches oil as soon as it reaches the crankcase. Oil is then sucked out of the engine by the externally mounted pump's scavenge stage and sent to an oil tank. Keeping oil in an external tank allows the whirling and reciprocating parts of the crankcase to move through clean air, boosting power by as much as 10 or 20 horsepower, according to David Currier, vice president of engine engineering for Toyota Racing Development. "If there is less oil in there (the crankcase), there is less change of the parts hitting the oil," he observed. Storing oil in an external tank also keep it cool and gives it a chance to separate out the air bubbles, Currier says.

You know that new, low-viscosity 5W-20 oil carmakers are using now to improve fuel economy? It is molasses compared with the 0W-5 oil Nascar teams use to minimize pumping losses and friction. "It gets to be a bit like water," Currier says. And that thin, runny oil lacks the anti-corrosion additives and detergents that oil in street cars needs to last between oil changes, since race cars get new oil for every race.

 

[OVERKILL]

I don't know of any teams that change the oil between qualifying and race day unless they are also changing the engine. I don't believe they can change the oil legally anyway.

I read it on here years ago (I don't follow NASCAR) and it stuck with me, lol. If it's wrong, it's wrong.

 

[Jetronic]

I think it may be series specific, I saw plenty of references to dry sumps yesterday when I was searching.

For example, the Sprint Cup Car series:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a6652/5-ways-nascar-stock-engines-arent-actually-stock/

0w-5 eh... can someone show me the oil viscosity range that encompasses?

 

[OVERKILL]

0w-5 eh... can someone show me the oil viscosity range that encompasses?

Yeah, they just made that one up, lol. IIRC, the visc is closer to an SAE 16.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Yeah, they just made that one up, lol. IIRC, the visc is closer to an SAE 16.

KV100 for a theoretical 0W-5 is 4.5-5.0 cSt. The grades 0W-5 and 0W-10 were created by racing oil blenders back before SAE approved the 16 grade and lower in 2013. They don't want to change the grade up to correspond with SAE because it may make their loyal customers think they changed the oil formula so the theoretical grades stay.

Redline Drag Race 0W-5. Note how they call it "5WT" and "0W5" without the dash to differentiate it from the SAE grades that follow the "xW-x" format. This is a popular oil in stock and super stock eliminator classes.

https://www.redlineoil.com/5wt-drag-race-oil-0w5

 

[kschachn]

Red Line does that with all their products except for the Professional Series.

 

[OVERKILL]

KV100 for a theoretical 0W-5 is 4.5-5.0 cSt. The grades 0W-5 and 0W-10 were created by racing oil blenders back before SAE approved the 16 grade and lower in 2013. They don't want to change the grade up to correspond with SAE because it may make their loyal customers think they changed the oil formula so the theoretical grades stay.

Redline Drag Race 0W-5. Note how they call it "5WT" and "0W5" without the dash to differentiate it from the SAE grades that follow the "xW-x" format. This is a popular oil in stock and super stock eliminator classes.

https://www.redlineoil.com/5wt-drag-race-oil-0w5

Yup, we've discussed this before. The oils would have fallen within the xW-20 range when SAE 16, 12 and 8 didn't exist, but because that range was so large, they fabricated their own grades to create a sequence of differentiation.

Unfortunately, this has also trickled over into the PCMO section with some blenders, which was totally ridiculous, and persists after grades within that range have been officially ratified. So you have a "0W5" that's actually a 0w-16 for example, lol.

 

[Cujet]

5. Bearing clearances too tight for the oil viscosity being used. Late model engines such as a Chevy LS or Ford modular V8 with tighter main and rod bearing clearances of .0015˝ to .002˝ usually require a thin multi-viscosity motor oil such as 5W-20.

Ha, those are the exact same numbers Ford was using back in the 1970's. I think you'd have to go back to 1930 to find clearances bigger than that.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Yup, we've discussed this before. The oils would have fallen within the xW-20 range when SAE 16, 12 and 8 didn't exist, but because that range was so large, they fabricated their own grades to create a sequence of differentiation.

Unfortunately, this has also trickled over into the PCMO section with some blenders, which was totally ridiculous, and persists after grades within that range have been officially ratified. So you have a "0W5" that's actually a 0w-16 for example, lol.

Most 0W-16's I've seen are pretty close to a 0W-20...