All You Guys That Think OEM Recommended 16 or 20 Weight...

oil is too thin and want to move up to a 30 or 40 weight oil for "better protection" might want to consider this:

"Contributing factors that can cause oil pressure and lubrication problems in an engine include:

5. Bearing clearances too tight for the oil viscosity being used. Late model engines such as a Chevy LS or Ford modular V8 with tighter main and rod bearing clearances of .0015˝ to .002˝ usually require a thin multi-viscosity motor oil such as 5W-20. Fill the crankcase with a relatively thick racing oil and you’ll have problems right from the start. Tighter bearing clearances require thinner oils..." https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017/03/engine-bearing-technology-spin-spun-bearings/

That statement has a small amount of truth to it that's a bit exaggerated. You won't have issues from the start. Some VVT/VCT engines that use oil pressure for activation may be sensitive to it at operating temp, but not likely cause damage of any sorts.

The issue from this would be a very niche concern. Let's take NASCAR engines for example. They have extremely precise machining (Bryant crankshafts are marvels of precise engineering) with very tight clearances
Aside from the bearings, the hydrodynamic friction from higher viscosity can be a major power killer. It can have a huge effect, into double digit horsepower losses, with higher viscosity when the piston speeds are exceeding 75 fps.
 
Yup, GM historically called for 5w-30 in the Corvette and Camaro for DD use but if you were tracking it, they recommended 15w-50.
I think it was more recently GM said to use a dexos2 oil in the newest Corvette/Camaro for track use and to dump it out afterwards?
 
I think it was more recently GM said to use a dexos2 oil in the newest Corvette/Camaro for track use and to dump it out afterwards?
I know they've shifted their oil recommendation to M1 ESP 0w-40 now, will have to take a peek at one of the manuals.
 
They use 0W-16 to 0W-20 oils with up to 280*F sump temps and up to 355*F oil temps at bearing exit while sustained at 8000+ rpm around Daytona and Talladega for 500 miles.
OT - which leads me to this - is XOM’s marketing about off-the-shelf M1 being used by NASCAR having some element of truth if they are using 0W-16 or 0W-20, or is it a special high-ZDDP formula for race day?
 
Looks like they still require 15w-50 for certain engines:
Screen Shot 2021-08-18 at 11.46.05 AM.webp

Screen Shot 2021-08-18 at 11.48.17 AM.webp
 
I'm going to say that is a terrible example considering the rod bearings on most of those cars are 50k maintenance items.
I'm not saying the engines are great, I'm giving an example as to why manufacturers might recommend a thicker oil. The S54 is well known to have narrow rod journals, not excessive bearing clearances requiring the use of a 60-weight oil.

Thanks for helping me prove my point.
 
OT - which leads me to this - is XOM’s marketing about off-the-shelf M1 being used by NASCAR having some element of truth if they are using 0W-16 or 0W-20, or is it a special high-ZDDP formula for race day?

They do not use off-the-shelf oil. There might be one or two using M1 Racing 0W-30. The oils for their environment have a good bit of ester and PAO. The add pack is minimal on ZDDP with a lot of friction modifiers and EP additives.

Here's a limited VOA of one of them. The brand and team name withheld, of course.

Silicon: 10
Molybdenum: 1755
Calcium: 256
Phosphorus: 809
zinc: 963
KV100: 7.6
 
They do not use off-the-shelf oil. There might be one or two using M1 Racing 0W-30. The oils for their environment have a good bit of ester and PAO. The add pack is minimal on ZDDP with a lot of friction modifiers and EP additives.

Here's a limited VOA of one of them. The brand and team name withheld, of course.

Silicon: 10
Molybdenum: 1755
Calcium: 256
Phosphorus: 809
zinc: 963
KV100: 7.6

Yeah, the only venues that I know of that use OTS Mobil products are the 24hr cars (LeMans, Sebring, Daytona) and these are factory race teams and they appear to be using M1 0w-40 exclusively.
 
Gee, I've been running a 40 or 50 grade in an engine spec'd for a 20 for the last 50k with multiple daily 7000 RPM pulls on the highway, sometimes at 80-100mph. If the oil couldn't fit in those small clearances I would have surely thrown a rod by now.

Also a fun note, my oil pressure light goes off much faster (less than half a second) after an oil change with a 40 or 50. Used to take several seconds with 5w20 or 5w30.
All that shows is that in the short amount of time you've been running it, in one engine, that it hasn't managed to kill it yet. It doesn't show that it's beneficial or otherwise a good thing.

Seriously though; all this stuff is totally some combination of superstition, voodoo and medieval monks debating the number of angels that can fit on the head of a pin. Without pretty comprehensive experimentation, it's very much one person's opinion vs. another's, and neither have anything conclusive to go by, except what the engine makers have specified for that engine, either in the present or past.

I mean, I could easily say that oil and filters don't really matter, and that you can get a car to nearly 300k on whatever you feel like; after all, my Dad got his 1982 Pontiac Bonneville to 275k using whatever the cheapest quick-lube oil and filters there were. Lots of people here would argue this point, but the fact is that none of us have any proof that thick vs. thin, top vs. bottom bypass valves, etc... actually make any kind of difference in the real world. I mean, they *might* make some difference if you're looking at the entire Federal government fleet and running statistical analyses, but for your average user, it's going to be exceedingly hard to tell.

Might as well hang chicken bones and other magical amulets off your bumper. You'll be able to tell if they work just the same as running 40 weight vs 30 weight.
 
All that shows is that in the short amount of time you've been running it, in one engine, that it hasn't managed to kill it yet. It doesn't show that it's beneficial or otherwise a good thing.

Seriously though; all this stuff is totally some combination of superstition, voodoo and medieval monks debating the number of angels that can fit on the head of a pin. Without pretty comprehensive experimentation, it's very much one person's opinion vs. another's, and neither have anything conclusive to go by, except what the engine makers have specified for that engine, either in the present or past.

I mean, I could easily say that oil and filters don't really matter, and that you can get a car to nearly 300k on whatever you feel like; after all, my Dad got his 1982 Pontiac Bonneville to 275k using whatever the cheapest quick-lube oil and filters there were. Lots of people here would argue this point, but the fact is that none of us have any proof that thick vs. thin, top vs. bottom bypass valves, etc... actually make any kind of difference in the real world. I mean, they *might* make some difference if you're looking at the entire Federal government fleet and running statistical analyses, but for your average user, it's going to be exceedingly hard to tell.

Might as well hang chicken bones and other magical amulets off your bumper. You'll be able to tell if they work just the same as running 40 weight vs 30 weight.
Thank you.

The anecdotal versus data on this site really is preposterous. And they all do it. You'd think somewhere along the line we'd have some confident conclusion in something. 😡
 
From the article: Fill the crankcase with a relatively thick racing oil and you’ll have problems right from the start.

What exactly would be considered a relatively thick racing oil? Perhaps a straight 70 weight may be problematic, but if this thread is about 5w-30 in a 0w-20 or 5w-20 application, then we're wasting bandwidth.

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Yes, sometimes things wander into the absurd.

There's a marked difference between using a heavier oil and using an oil that's wholly inappropriate for the prevailing ambient conditions. An SAE 70 when it's -30 isn't a good choice for many reasons, but the risk in using it isn't the hot viscosity but rather the fact that it doesn't carry any form of winter rating and may be a gelatinous blob that won't pump at that temperature.
 
Boy, wait until they see winter then! I'm amazed every single Ford and Chev doesn't seize solid when we see -30C then.

Temperature has a far, FAR greater impact on viscosity than what you see as the grade on the bottle. Engines simply are not that sensitive to viscosity; they can't be, otherwise, when it gets cold, they'd all blow-up. Since they don't, and since Canada doesn't have dozers out pushing all the failed engines off the road in Alberta when it's -40C, it's pretty safe to conclude that this is a REALLY bad take.
****....I'm out of popcorn!
 
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