Aftermarket Lug Nuts caused vibration

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: smc733
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I have acorns in both aluminum and steel wheels. If they had a steel donut spare they would have to accommodate the regular issue nuts.

I assume your hub bores don't fit tightly as well.


Excuse my ignorance, but what does that mean?

Originally Posted By: Rand
hopefully you didnt damage your studs with those.

always use common sense.

if an aftermarket part doesnt look like oem part.. be suspicious..


If I did, how could I tell, and how difficult could it be to replace them. At the time I had ordered them, they looked right compared to the ones that came with the steelies. (Fortunately I kept them, I'll keep 5 in my trunk for the donut).


I'm guessing that el is referring to the fact that most, if not all OE wheels use the center hub to locate or center the wheel. Often times an aftermarket wheel will have an overly larger center bore, so as to fit more than one application, but the same lug pattern and rely on the lug nuts and lugs to properly center the wheel. Think lug centric vs. hub centric. The vibration experienced was likely due to using an aftermarket rim (right?) and the incorrect lug, which didn't properly center the rim.

 

[smc733]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: smc733
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I have acorns in both aluminum and steel wheels. If they had a steel donut spare they would have to accommodate the regular issue nuts.

I assume your hub bores don't fit tightly as well.


Excuse my ignorance, but what does that mean?

Originally Posted By: Rand
hopefully you didnt damage your studs with those.

always use common sense.

if an aftermarket part doesnt look like oem part.. be suspicious..


If I did, how could I tell, and how difficult could it be to replace them. At the time I had ordered them, they looked right compared to the ones that came with the steelies. (Fortunately I kept them, I'll keep 5 in my trunk for the donut).


I'm guessing that el is referring to the fact that most, if not all OE wheels use the center hub to locate or center the wheel. Often times an aftermarket wheel will have an overly larger center bore, so as to fit more than one application, but the same lug pattern and rely on the lug nuts and lugs to properly center the wheel. Think lug centric vs. hub centric. The vibration experienced was likely due to using an aftermarket rim (right?) and the incorrect lug, which didn't properly center the rim.


Ah, the wheels are actually the Toyota genuine OEM alloys (right off of a new 2013 (same as 2011's alloys)), so nothing is aftermarket now.

Would it warrant having another re-balance at this point?

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: Quest
remember: taper seats are for steel wheels; flat seat with washer are for alu/mag alloy wheels.

You should have verified what's on your vehicle before you proceed to purchase the lug nuts.

Q.


Not always. My Jetta uses the same lugs for both. Car came with alloys, and I asked before using steel rims (OEM ones), and the same lugs have been fine.


Same here.
EVERY OEM style, aftermarket alloy wheel for my car uses a conical taper seat.
Only some specialized drag race wheels use the shank and flat seat with washer style of lug nut.

One other thing to watch for;
IF you plan on ordering/using the open ended, stock car/oval track style lug nuts from the suppliers of such, keep in mind that their conical/tapered lugs are cut on a 45* angle, whereas most street conical tapers are cut at 60*.
I noticed this today while browsing through my Speedway Motors Race catalog.

 

[yonyon]

If you're vibration is gone now that the wheels are firmly attached to the car, why bother with a rebalance?

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: smc733
Would it warrant having another re-balance at this point?


If you're happy, then I seriously doubt that an additional balance job will do any good.



Originally Posted By: yonyon
If you're vibration is gone now that the wheels are firmly attached to the car, why bother with a rebalance?



Agreed.

 

[asand1]

They were the correct lug nuts for your car, just wrong for your wheels.
Before buying lugnuts you need to be aware of your thread pitch, diameter, and seat type. Dont ever trust a parts finder, as they dont know what wheels you might have.

This thread should ne retitled " wrong lug nuts caused vibration". BTW, Mcgard are amoung the best and do not deserve any blame here.

 

[smc733]

Originally Posted By: asand1
They were the correct lug nuts for your car, just wrong for your wheels.
Before buying lugnuts you need to be aware of your thread pitch, diameter, and seat type. Dont ever trust a parts finder, as they dont know what wheels you might have.

This thread should ne retitled " wrong lug nuts caused vibration". BTW, Mcgard are amoung the best and do not deserve any blame here.


Right, I am pretty sure McGuard actually makes Toyota's lugs anyway, as the OEM Toyota wheel locks I bought from the dealer have a key that says "McGuard". Totally meant to convey that it was the wrong part, not the brand themselves, sorry.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: smc733

Right, I am pretty sure McGuard actually makes Toyota's lugs anyway, as the OEM Toyota wheel locks I bought from the dealer have a key that says "McGuard". Totally meant to convey that it was the wrong part, not the brand themselves, sorry.


I doubt they're OEM.

There's Toyota, then Toyota of North America, then your regional distributor, then your dealer.

It would take a complete (US) parts catalog to find those lug nuts, which I suspect aren't in there.

In short, I bet they're dealer supplied accessories. Not that there's a problem with that. Biggest problem would be in ten years when you need a key because it broke at the tire store and the dealer has no idea they were McGuard "back in the day".

 

[rationull]

This is an interesting thread.

Between my wife and I we've had 3 cars with alloy wheels (Mazda, Honda, Subaru) and they all have taper seat lugs too. IIRC same for my sister's Kia. All three have steel spares w/out a separate set of nuts for the spare. Now I know why I guess.

TBH I'm not sure I've ever even seen a lug with a washer like that before.

 

[sciphi]

Aftermarket wheels often come with spacers for the hubs to help them fit on better. Both sets of aftermarket wheels I have came with spacers. Make sure to dope up the hubs with plenty of anti-seize when using those spacers. They don't come off easily at winter's end otherwise.

 

[gaijinnv]

Originally Posted By: smc733
A warning to all, don't trust Amazon's parts finder for EVERYTHING without verifying the parts themselves.

Bought some aftermarket McGuard lug nuts when I installed my OEM alloys, and ever since, I had vibration issues accelerating and at 65+MPH. Two road-force balancings and air-pressure adjustments later, I found the problem...

Check out the picture below (left Aftermarket, right Toyota OEM). Vibration is now gone. Fortunately, Amazon took the lugs back, even thought it has been nearly 90 days.

I admit it may be partly my fault, since I didn't quite know the differences, but the shape of these lugs are very different.

http://imgur.com/gDSCSdj


In all fairness to Amazon's part finder, if you carefully read the description for the lug nuts you ordered, you will find the phrase, "Not for use on OEM wheels."

So, I would add to all the good advice given above, that one should carefully read the parts description before ordering.

 

[Vikas]

Can somebody explain to me if OP used one (locking) lug nut different than the other or were all the lug nuts same? Am I to believe that the vibration was because the lug nuts were *not* clamping the wheel correctly? I am sorry but I am having hard time believing that as explanation because in that cases OP would have been dead long time ago.

Only thing that I can understand is that the aftermarket lug nut had different weight than the original and that was the cause of the vibration assuming each wheel had one aftermarket lug nut.

I am not buying any other explanation.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: rationull
This is an interesting thread.

Between my wife and I we've had 3 cars with alloy wheels (Mazda, Honda, Subaru) and they all have taper seat lugs too. IIRC same for my sister's Kia. All three have steel spares w/out a separate set of nuts for the spare. Now I know why I guess.

TBH I'm not sure I've ever even seen a lug with a washer like that before.


Many vehicles with aluminum rims use the tapered acorn lugnuts.

The only vehicle I've owned that used the ones with the built in washer was an older Toyota Camry.

 

[smc733]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Can somebody explain to me if OP used one (locking) lug nut different than the other or were all the lug nuts same? Am I to believe that the vibration was because the lug nuts were *not* clamping the wheel correctly? I am sorry but I am having hard time believing that as explanation because in that cases OP would have been dead long time ago.

Only thing that I can understand is that the aftermarket lug nut had different weight than the original and that was the cause of the vibration assuming each wheel had one aftermarket lug nut.

I am not buying any other explanation.


That could be the case... The locking lug nut was a 21, vs 19 for the lugs (the OEMs are also 21s now), and there was a noticeable difference in size.

With aftermarket lugs:
http://imgur.com/gsuCY9f

With OEM lugs:
http://imgur.com/Cm3Nf4L

 

[cmorr]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Can somebody explain to me if OP used one (locking) lug nut different than the other or were all the lug nuts same? Am I to believe that the vibration was because the lug nuts were *not* clamping the wheel correctly? I am sorry but I am having hard time believing that as explanation because in that cases OP would have been dead long time ago.

Only thing that I can understand is that the aftermarket lug nut had different weight than the original and that was the cause of the vibration assuming each wheel had one aftermarket lug nut.

I am not buying any other explanation.



Lug-centric versus hub-centric wheels as mentioned above ?

It sounds like the alloy wheels are lug-centric and use the shank style lug nuts to center the wheel on he hub properly. I assume the steel wheels were hub-centric as he used bulge/acorn lug nuts on those without issue

 

[djb]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Can somebody explain to me if OP used one (locking) lug nut different than the other or were all the lug nuts same? Am I to believe that the vibration was because the lug nuts were *not* clamping the wheel correctly? I am sorry but I am having hard time believing that as explanation because in that cases OP would have been dead long time ago.


The Toyota steel wheels are positioned with tapered lug nuts. The Toyota factory alloy wheels are positioned with precise diameter shoulders on the nuts.

This is apparently because some of the older thin alloy wheel risked cracking if tapered lug nuts were overtightened. By using square shoulder nuts with captive washers the wheels are less likely to work-harden around the lugs, and cracks won't propagate since the alloy is entirely in compression.

Since the dealers sometimes configured cars with optional wheels, even the factory couldn't tell you which lug nuts are correct for your specific car. You might even end up with a different type of lug nut for your spare tire.