A Case For Not Going 10,000 Miles on an OCI

[walterjay]

I have a direct injected engine and I really don't want to go past 5-6K. Oil gets nasty quick. Usually go 4,500 miles on oc.

 

[2EHA]

Exactly. Even if you use an expensive oil like Redline or Amsoil and change it every 3k at 300,000 miles you've spent ~$6000. New engines can easily cost that much installed or even more. I see no reason to push past 5k unless doing a UOA, but then again, for the cost of the analysis you could've just changed the oil so why bother?

or you can take advantage of the fact flagship oils are dirt cheap and change at the same intervals the rest of the world is doing with junk oils. unless you have a known oil killer dumping oil at 3-5k is wasteful

 

[doublebase]

Meanwhile the suspension is falling apart, the tires wear funny, the transmission makes weird noises and the quarter panels are rusted out...

Meanwhile cholesterol is up, property taxes keep climbing, people aren’t getting enough fiber and the **** Easter bunny is FAKE.

 

[doublebase]

Those "few bucks" really add up over the life of a car, though. Say you have a car specced for 10k oil changes, but you do it every 5k with Mobil 1 or some similar synthetic oil and a decent filter instead. Over 300k miles, that's an extra 30 oil changes - you've done 60 instead of 30. At a ballpark of, say, $40 per change (for M1 and a filter with tax), we're talking an extra $1200 over the life of the car, a not-insignificant sum.

If you change at 3k, as some people still do, you've changed the oil and filter 100 times instead of 30 times the book called for, an additional cost of $2800 over changing it on factory spec. Would I rather have a 300k mile car that had 10k M1 changes as per the book (with that engine probably in excellent working order), plus an extra $1200-2800, or the same car with slightly cleaner engine internals (perhaps) and have several fewer thousand dollars? In the $2800 example, that car with 300k miles on it is not necessarily even worth $2800, so I'm not sure that it's really "such a good deal" to change the oil unnecessarily early for the life of a car (that $2800 could pay for a rebuilt transmission, or another major repair to keep the old car on the road, or be the down payment on the next car...)

This math gets even more extreme if you pay someone to change the oil, as many/most people seem to do. 3k vs 10k oil changes over 300k with a cost of $100 (ballpark for synthetic at Jiffy Lube and many dealers) adds up to an extra $7000 over the life of the car. Is that 300k mile car going to be worth $7000 more because of its over-maintained history? Is there any evidence that it'll even run better or be in better mechanical condition than if the owner just followed the book?

Now, there are examples of sludgers and engines that beat the oil up, but for a garden variety engine speccing 10k oil changes under normal conditions, that's really all that's needed most of the time, assuming you use quality oil, etc. (That is, the people who designed the car probably know far better than people saying things like "This oil is turning light brown and has 2800 miles on it, so I'll change it!")

The point of all that math is that the incremental "few bucks" (scare quotes mine) add up over the lifetime of a car, and changing oil early for the "warm fuzzies" may not be the most financially-savvy move out there, as it could cost a few thousand plus over the lifetime of any given car.

An argument can be made in contrast to what you’re saying, but I do like the way you put it, and I tend to agree except for a couple things...

Price. If you’re talking about changing your own oil, and if you are shifting to shorter intervals, say 5,000 miles...you could always go to Walmart and buy Super Tech and a filter and be out of there for $20 bucks. You really could...$15 for 5 quarts and $5-$7 bucks for a filter.

Or you could potentially not make it to 300k miles without major engine repair - then you wipe all your savings and then some. For instance, if you need a ring job you’ll have two options...replace the entire car (like I did) or replace the rings that are stuck, and let that run you $3,000-$6,000 depending on the engine (Pull the engine, rebuild it, break every darn hose and connector on a car with 200,000 plus miles, every clamp, engine mounts, tech loses a few things along the way). Engine rebuilds are often end game events, it’s major surgery...picture major major surgery on a 85 year old patient. Things don’t go as planned.

But you are right, you could save money if things go ok and you’re able to get that engine to 250,000-300,000 without issue on extended drains. Or even better, you sell it with 120,000 miles and you’re out of there BEFORE anything bad starts happening. What most will do. And I believe why most think it’s a good idea to go extended drain (because they’re never around to see what can happen). And I don’t blame them one bit. In fact I’d recommend long OCI’s if you plan on doing that. IMO

 

[2EHA]

An argument can be made in contrast to what you’re saying, but I do like the way you put it, and I tend to agree except for a couple things...

Price. If you’re talking about changing your own oil, and if you are shifting to shorter intervals, say 5,000 miles...you could always go to Walmart and buy Super Tech and a filter and be out of there for $20 bucks. You really could...$15 for 5 quarts and $5-$7 bucks for a filter.

Or you could potentially not make it to 300k miles without major engine repair - then you wipe all your savings and then some. For instance, if you need a ring job you’ll have two options...replace the entire car (like I did) or replace the rings that are stuck, and let that run you $3,000-$6,000 depending on the engine (Pull the engine, rebuild it, break every darn hose and connector on a car with 200,000 plus miles, every clamp, engine mounts, tech loses a few things along the way). Engine rebuilds are often end game events, it’s major surgery...picture major major surgery on a 85 year old patient. Things don’t go as planned.

But you are right, you could save money if things go ok and you’re able to get that engine to 250,000-300,000 without issue on extended drains. Or even better, you sell it with 120,000 miles and you’re out of there BEFORE anything bad starts happening. What most will do. And I believe why most think it’s a good idea to go extended drain (because they’re never around to see what can happen). And I don’t blame them one bit. In fact I’d recommend long OCI’s if you plan on doing that. IMO

“my lexus started burning oil and it was definitely the factory oci that caused it”

that being said if you remotely cared about ring stick tgmo 0w20 was a poor choice of oil

 

[bullwinkle]

Judging by how our 1NZFE looks with 5K OCI i'd be terrified to do 10K.

Synthetic? Or conventional/blend? The xB oil has stayed pretty clean up to 7500+ no matter what oil is in it, although it's getting M1 EP/AP every 7000 now since I've scored so much cheap & free that the jugs are starting to leak!

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I fully agree it blows my mind!! Why?? Are they seriously to tight to spend the extra few bucks to change the oil??? meanwhile having enough money saved to retire years ago. Lol I have noticed the more money some of these guys have the tighter they become. There is no way I’d go 10 thousand miles let alone some going 15 thousand plus. I always keep a eye on how the oil looks at 3,000 miles and usually change it then but have went to 5,000 before In the winter because it was to cold for me. Is it the money making them want to stretch it out 15-20 thousand miles or that they just don’t like having to do it? I figure a lot of people on this forum do their own oil changes. My opinion on this is just that, my opinion and means nothing to anyone but myself. For these guys going 10 thousand plus it really doesn’t matter to them being they usually get rid of the car before 100 thousand miles anyway leaving it to us to clean er up. Lol

Change the oil when it need to be changed - not before.
So when is that?
Depends on the Engine's state of tune and health, how its driven, and, very last, the oil and filter used.

One of our cars gets driven 2000 miles a month, 75% highway, One hour commute, one way.
This is easy on the oil and the engine. I stretched the oil change from 6K miles to 9K miles with LESS wear
than guys dumping oil much sooner. Did two UOA to maintain dealer "lifetime" warranty if needed.

I am getting old and I have to do the job - Dealer and Instant O.C. places are incompetent and $$$.
So I only want to be under the car no more than couple times a year.

Now MY car gets driven only around town slowly and only has 500-600 miles a month on it.
That is NOT good for the engine so that will get 2x oil changes a year. Spring and late Fall - regardless of mileage.

I don't want to be under there in the Winter at 15 degrees below freezing. I've done that in the past - but no more !

I hope this UN-blows your mind.

Too frequent an oil change interval does not extend the life of the engine.

-Ken

 

[RDY4WAR]

Only 10,000 miles?

 

[RDY4WAR]

It's not about saving money for me. It's about saving resources. Like it or not, oil is a finite resource. I went 20,500 miles on my last oil change with HPL HDEO 5W-20, and it still had 2.5 TBN and good wear numbers. Why would I dump it early? Why waste it?

 

[4WD]

It's not about saving money for me. It's about saving resources. Like it or not, oil is a finite resource. I went 20,500 miles on my last oil change with HPL HDEO 5W-20, and it still had 2.5 TBN and good wear numbers. Why would I dump it early? Why waste it?

Was that a port injected mill ?

 

[RDY4WAR]

Was that a port injected mill ?

Yes. If it was GDI, I'd likely be watching it more closely around 15,000 miles.

 

[BLND1]

Nobody ever considers this and it is massively important.

I tend to agree. I Very much like the 6qt sump on my new small turbo VW. My Tacoma is twice the displacement but N/A with a 5.5 qt sump. Very happy with both.

 

[4WD]

Yes. If it was GDI, I'd likely be watching it more closely around 15,000 miles.

Going to start doing 10k on my 5.3L … but use the Fumoto to spike one quart 60% OLM …
That is my next baby step because last change “smelled like Shell”

 

[4WD]

What if I told you a member has run 10k OCI using Mobil 1 for 40 years ?
You should find it harder to believe the gawd awful filters used for 10k

 

[Accent Abuser]

Yes. If it was GDI, I'd likely be watching it more closely around 15,000 miles.

If I left an oil in my GDI Hyundai for 15k it would likely be converted to asphalt. It goes from invisible on the dipstick after filling to completely black in 1500 miles. By the time I dump it at 3k it looks like it came out of a diesel.

 

[2EHA]

By the time I dump it at 3k it looks like it came out of a diesel.

ok and?

what is the tbn what is the fuel %

 

[ARB1977]

If I left an oil in my GDI Hyundai for 15k it would likely be converted to asphalt. It goes from invisible on the dipstick after filling to completely black in 1500 miles. By the time I dump it at 3k it looks like it came out of a diesel.

My wife’s Pilot is GDI. I follow the olm which is about 6500-7200 miles. It’s pretty black but f it, lol. I use M1 EP 0W20. Currently has 5W20 since they were out.

 

[Dorian]

Check out my sig. Both Camrys run 10K OCI. No such issues with synthetic. Not sure what the owner in the video ran. Our cars will be taken off the road because of other issues, not OCI or oil related.

 

[BMW Dom]

Check out my sig. Both Camrys run 10K OCI. No such issues with synthetic. Not sure what the owner in the video ran. Our cars will be taken off the road because of other issues, not OCI or oil related.

I believe that the car in the video had over 200k miles.

 

[OldCowboy]

When I was stationed in Germany (84-88) I had a German spec Porsche 944. It had an oil minder that tracked everything; Engine temp, air temp, throttle position, fuel consumption, etc, etc, etc. Then when the time came for an oil change, it would alert you of that fact. My shortest OCI was 8,000 miles while the longest was 13,000 miles. My current Audi A4 has a similar function, but it is not activated in USA. The OCI is 10,000 miles however you drive. Which is of course is stupid. It doesn't bother me since my shortest trips are 25 miles one way, But it does make me wonder about all the city Audi drivers who rarely get their engines up to operating temp.