A Case For Not Going 10,000 Miles on an OCI

[Shel_B]

While this case is for a 4-Cyl Toyota engine, a 2AR-FE, it might be a consideration for other engines as well. The link takes you to the point in the video where the oil rings are being discussed, but the whole video is worth watching, maybe with some fast forwards depending on your interest. The second video link is where the Car Care Nut comments on long oil changes.



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[simple_gifts]

Extrapolation of a sketchy maintenance history of a "commercial vehicle with high idle hours" to other vehicles is disingenuous at best.

This is BITOG; there is enough information here to indicate what usage patterns and engines have no issues with very long OCI.

Will continue to do 15K OCI in my prius and 10K in my yaris.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I thought some Toyota engines that end up with stuck rings is because the drain holes in the piston behind the oil scraper ring set wasn't designed adequately.

 

[AKhan87]

I thought some Toyota engines that end up with stuck rings is because the drain holes in the piston behind the oil scraper ring set wasn't designed adequately.

depends on the engine, olders ones yes, newer ones? not so much.

2GR-FE is a very reliable engine and has had 10k OCI without any issue related to oil.

I do 10k OCI with extended performance oils without blinking, from the UOA to what the manufacturer recommends, I have put 60k plus miles without any issues, and from what I have read and the miles I have seen on these engines, I doubt it matter.

IT ALL DEPENDS ON the engine, engine oil being used, and the conditions its being used for, if your short tripping for 10k OCI on synthetic blends, its probably not a good idea. Most Full Synthetics will hold up depending on the engine and driving conditions.

 

[Kestas]

I think sump capacity is a big factor for OCI. Some engines hold 7 or more quarts; others hold only 4 quarts.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

I think sump capacity is a big factor for OCI. Some engines hold 7 or more quarts; others hold only 4 quarts.

Nobody ever considers this and it is massively important.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Over 8k in on my kirkland syn 5w30. Only took a little over 4 months to get this far(many long trips and stable operating condition miles and hours with some high rpms to get to highway speeds occasionally) so I am not worried.
I am more worried about the Lexus that is short tripped more andhas 2800 miles in a month longer .(but if it goes 6k a year on one oil change..that is not concerning either.
Service type/duty cycle is the Most important thing. Followed by sump capacity. Oil selection within manufacturer specifications is not that high on the list.

Sometime between now and 10k I will drop the current fill in the Tacoma and refill with more Kirkland synthetic and leave the 20k mile oil filter in place and run another 8-10k before doing a full change. Love the way the truck handles the miles.

 

[Starman2112]

To each their own but I’ve never understood why anyone would push an OCI to 10k or more. Risking a very expensive repair to save a few bucks on an oil change? It’s false economy.

 

[Ihatetochangeoil]

To each their own but I’ve never understood why anyone would push an OCI to 10k or more. Risking a very expensive repair to save a few bucks on an oil change? It’s false economy.

I maintain multiple vehicles, Sometimes 15K OCI, I use Amsoil or Valvoline, also use UOA and I'm not risking a **** thing. I'm sure I spend more money than the bargain hunters who put Walmart ST in and change it every 3-5K. I'd rather spend more time driving the car and less time underneath it. To each their own, indeed...

 

[paulri]

He has published other videos talking specifically about passenger cars, 4 cyl priuses & camries having stuck rings when going for 10K OCIs, so this video alone doesn't represent his whole case against long OCIs. He's even reporting recent camries running 0w16 developing this problem when run for 10K OCIs.

I'm not saying I do 5K OCIs for all my cars--just clarifying his position.

Extrapolation of a sketchy maintenance history of a "commercial vehicle with high idle hours" to other vehicles is disingenuous at best.

This is BITOG; there is enough information here to indicate what usage patterns and engines have no issues with very long OCI.

Will continue to do 15K OCI in my prius and 10K in my yaris.

 

[oldhp]

30 minutes to change my oil/oil filter and makes me feel all fuzzy and warm. 10K OCI?????? I start getting the shakes at 2K miles. . . . .

 

[ammolab]

I think sump capacity is a big factor for OCI. Some engines hold 7 or more quarts; others hold only 4 quarts.

I think sump capacity alone is not enough data. Engine displacement should be considered. A 1.6 ltr engine with 4 quarts has way more oil per cc of displacement than a 6.2 ltr engine with 7 quarts.

 

[doublebase]

He has published other videos talking specifically about passenger cars, 4 cyl priuses & camries having stuck rings when going for 10K OCIs, so this video alone doesn't represent his whole case against long OCIs. He's even reporting recent camries running 0w16 developing this problem when run for 10K OCIs.

I'm not saying I do 5K OCIs for all my cars--just clarifying his position.

I find him to be very knowledgeable, practical and realistic when talking cars/maintenance/Toyota’s/repairs.

I played the long OCI game for a time, never again. Not a lot of fun when you’re sitting there at 150,000 miles and your rings are shot, you’re drinking a quart every 700 miles -as you have so much blowby that your intake is pooling oil. And then you’re trading the car in at 179,000 miles because you’re now dropping a quart every 500 miles and there’s no point in keeping it any longer.

 

[jimbrewer]

When I ran my Ford down almost to zero on the IOLM with all MC filter and oil, it was 9.3K miles. UOA said oil was OK—-barely.

I’ll go that long with full synthetic but normally about 20% on IOLM, about 8K

You need a reasonable margin of error.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

deleted.oci is a silly debate

 

[Malo83]

5K works for me.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

5K works for me.

let’s revisit in the Am

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

I think sump capacity alone is not enough data. Engine displacement should be considered. A 1.6 ltr engine with 4 quarts has way more oil per cc of displacement than a 6.2 ltr engine with 7 quarts.

Depends. If that 6.2 is ohv n/a and the 1.6 is dohc turbocharged, I think you'd be surprised at how much oil the engine is actually using at any given time.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

I find him to be very knowledgeable, practical and realistic when talking cars/maintenance/Toyota’s/repairs.

I played the long OCI game for a time, never again. Not a lot of fun when you’re sitting there at 150,000 miles and your rings are shot, you’re drinking a quart every 700 miles -as you have so much blowby that your intake is pooling oil. And then you’re trading the car in at 179,000 miles because you’re now dropping a quart every 500 miles and there’s no point in keeping it any longer.

Meanwhile the suspension is falling apart, the tires wear funny, the transmission makes weird noises and the quarter panels are rusted out...

 

[TmanP]

To each their own but I’ve never understood why anyone would push an OCI to 10k or more. Risking a very expensive repair to save a few bucks on an oil change? It’s false economy.

Those "few bucks" really add up over the life of a car, though. Say you have a car specced for 10k oil changes, but you do it every 5k with Mobil 1 or some similar synthetic oil and a decent filter instead. Over 300k miles, that's an extra 30 oil changes - you've done 60 instead of 30. At a ballpark of, say, $40 per change (for M1 and a filter with tax), we're talking an extra $1200 over the life of the car, a not-insignificant sum.

If you change at 3k, as some people still do, you've changed the oil and filter 100 times instead of 30 times the book called for, an additional cost of $2800 over changing it on factory spec. Would I rather have a 300k mile car that had 10k M1 changes as per the book (with that engine probably in excellent working order), plus an extra $1200-2800, or the same car with slightly cleaner engine internals (perhaps) and have several fewer thousand dollars? In the $2800 example, that car with 300k miles on it is not necessarily even worth $2800, so I'm not sure that it's really "such a good deal" to change the oil unnecessarily early for the life of a car (that $2800 could pay for a rebuilt transmission, or another major repair to keep the old car on the road, or be the down payment on the next car...)

This math gets even more extreme if you pay someone to change the oil, as many/most people seem to do. 3k vs 10k oil changes over 300k with a cost of $100 (ballpark for synthetic at Jiffy Lube and many dealers) adds up to an extra $7000 over the life of the car. Is that 300k mile car going to be worth $7000 more because of its over-maintained history? Is there any evidence that it'll even run better or be in better mechanical condition than if the owner just followed the book?

Now, there are examples of sludgers and engines that beat the oil up, but for a garden variety engine speccing 10k oil changes under normal conditions, that's really all that's needed most of the time, assuming you use quality oil, etc. (That is, the people who designed the car probably know far better than people saying things like "This oil is turning light brown and has 2800 miles on it, so I'll change it!")

The point of all that math is that the incremental "few bucks" (scare quotes mine) add up over the lifetime of a car, and changing oil early for the "warm fuzzies" may not be the most financially-savvy move out there, as it could cost a few thousand plus over the lifetime of any given car.