Argumentum ad populum This specific "argument" that keeps on popping up is not, in fact, an argument at all. 5w20 weight oils have proven themselves over and over in the UOAs that are posted on this site; who gives a rat's *** what someones else uses if you find something that works well for you? Japan specs 30/40 weight oils for a Civic, so it must be right? LOL... the Japanese BITOGers are probably arguing that the USA specs 5w20 so we must be right. As "Bio-T" would say: it's time to put this one to rest...
5W-20 people - explain this please:
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Again, I am being told that my argument is weak but most responses still ignore the facts that same engines gets different recommendations. I just told you (above) that my father's accord (Kentucky build I believe) in Europe recommends three different grades.
Whether my argument is original or not does not matter. What it does matter is the fact that no one really address my points without either "escaping" into "do your research I do not want to talk to you" or stating unproven facts "engines are different, europeans and japanese people are different, oil is not available" (when japanese are more tech savy, oil is available) etc..etc..
The closest argument I find acceptable for use of 20 weights oils here is the driving style of US drivers (highway, no high rpm due to many auto trannies, many start ups during the day, changing cars at 100-150ks etc).
As for beating a dead horse. It all depends on what you consider a dead horse. I find this topic interesting and if it was really dead and settled there would not be still so many responses and so many different view. I mean that is why we are here right?
Whether my argument is original or not does not matter. What it does matter is the fact that no one really address my points without either "escaping" into "do your research I do not want to talk to you" or stating unproven facts "engines are different, europeans and japanese people are different, oil is not available" (when japanese are more tech savy, oil is available) etc..etc..
The closest argument I find acceptable for use of 20 weights oils here is the driving style of US drivers (highway, no high rpm due to many auto trannies, many start ups during the day, changing cars at 100-150ks etc).
As for beating a dead horse. It all depends on what you consider a dead horse. I find this topic interesting and if it was really dead and settled there would not be still so many responses and so many different view. I mean that is why we are here right?
Hi,
Its the same Accord. They get two versions (US and Euro Accord - which is as you pointed out TSX).
427Z0, yeap, thats pretty much it.
Its the same Accord. They get two versions (US and Euro Accord - which is as you pointed out TSX).
427Z0, yeap, thats pretty much it.
As I stated before, run the 40wt for an OCI then try the 20wt. Then let's talk.
JHZR2
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not a useful test... 5 identical runs for each viscosity would need to be made, with at least one flush between the change from 20 to 40w
JMH
JMH
What's not usefull about engine response? This is not a UOA series or scientific endeavor that would cost alot of time and money to complete. I am simply stating that after an OCI with a 40 wt and then going to a 20wt The accord driver will notice.
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So? Who says that it needed 5w-30 oil back then? What if I told you that, if you went beyond a certain point, your 5w-30 was a 20 weight due to shearing (something that everyone seems to ignore)?? So, essentially most engines were spec'd for 5w-20 ..just that no one made one that was good enough. It was only when additional fuel economy was desired from a yet unexplored region that it came into its own. It was always there under another name. What if I told you that 99% of the rolling population does less then 20-25 minutes of uninterrupted driving without lengthy shutdown ..and that a 20 weight merely simulates a warmer part of the warm up cycle? What if I told you that you would have no trouble TOWING with a 5w-30 (that may have sheared to a 20weight) and subject it to 220F+ oil temps ..but you're fearing the pain of death with a 20 weight @190-200F ..when they're at the same visc?
Take a visc calculator for a spin and see just how narrow the temp difference is to make these oils look exactly the same as far as the engine is concerned
My daughter's 91 Vulcan (150k+) runs 5w-20. It consumes 1 quart in 6 months of operation. The same engine didn't care if I put 15w-40 in it.
We need some numbers other than 5, 20, 30, and 40 in this thread. It has no substance.
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JHZR2
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Engine response from a butt dyno or similar is highly dependent upon opinion, not third party analysis. The placebo effect certainly can take its toll here.
IMO
JMH
IMO
JMH
Keep in mind that the Ultimate Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything is the number "forty-two".quote:
Originally posted by Gary Allan:
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Let's have Accord2005NJ fedex his dads computers off his euro car(same engine) and put them in his USA model.
Then go get a smog check if it runs.
They are different. The engines are not the same. Apples and Oranges.
GM still does not have 5w-20 listed on any models that I can find.
Please provide the models for GM...
Dodge, Honda, Ford and Toyota (for 2006 and 2007) list 5w-20.
Bill
Then go get a smog check if it runs.
They are different. The engines are not the same. Apples and Oranges.
The big three being?
GM still does not have 5w-20 listed on any models that I can find.
Please provide the models for GM...
Dodge, Honda, Ford and Toyota (for 2006 and 2007) list 5w-20.
Bill
Bill, sounds like the big 4 to me
JHZR2
Staff member
not saying youre wrong, but IMO you got the correct placebo or actual response that one would expect... heavier oil=more sluggish.
How did you find the smoothness was? smoothness is a different metric from sluggish... but sluggish states that it was not equally responsive.
Ive yet to find a difference in smoothness from a heavier oil!
JMH
How did you find the smoothness was? smoothness is a different metric from sluggish... but sluggish states that it was not equally responsive.
Ive yet to find a difference in smoothness from a heavier oil!
JMH
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So they threw 5w-30 oil in an engine that was okay on 5w-20? How did they survive (sorry-another thread :blush
?I don't think any redesign was necessary. As I pointed out, most 5w-30 oil ..from the time that they came on the market ..until a few years ago ..sheared to a 20 weight. Lots of engines worked just fine on them ..most of them (most engines) did infact.
Right, I was expecting it to be smoother, and hoping it wouldn't be sluggish (less responsive).
I don't really recall if it felt 'smoother', or if it was quieter with the thicker oil. I do remember that it didn't seem to 'get up and go' as well when I pushed down on the gas pedal with the thicker oil.
Maybe I'm full of crap and wouldn't be able to tell which car had '30' and which had '20' in some sort of double-blind test. This website ****** me off sometimes. Now is one of them.
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