5W-20 people - explain this please:

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Honda Accord 2.4 VTEC in the US recommends 5w-20 oil. However, Honda in New Zealand it seems recommends 5w-30 or 10w-40 (so does honda in Croatia/Europe). Check out Castrol New Zealand at www.castrol.co.nz (click on TOOLS - Product Recommendation in the bottom left corner /scroll down). I am sorry, but how can the rest of the world recommend much thicker oil for the same engine - and by the way, it IS exactly the same engine.
 
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This is one of those perplexing questions nobody seems to be able to answer. I'd like to hear a good explanation myself.
 
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Can you find 20 weight in those areas? If not...??? What API spec is on the shelves there? Can one fine SM oils there at all?
 

Accord2005NJ

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Here is my 2 cents as I lived in Europe for over 20 years; First, people want their cars to last longer, many of them drive stick and rev their engines higher. Thus, the need for a thicker, better protective oil. Second, car manufacturers in the US think (rightfully so or not) that we (consumers) are total idiots and that they have to simplify things/instructions for us to the point of idiocy. Most manuals in Europe state different oil weights for different temperatures and driving conditions. For us (stupid ones?!) the car manufacturers state only one oil weight (because if they give us a chart 99% of women and 50% of men would just buy another "simpler" car). I think one should think with his/her own head. I just put 10-40 in my Accord over summer. I intend to use 5w-30 thereafter. In my CRV I just put Mobil1 Euro formula OW-40. Both cars run like a dream and I am certain are better protected then under 5W-20. And yes, I am willing to bet my warranty on it - which if it is ever questionned by Honda USA will have to face my attorney's questions about product/oil recommendation for the same engine in other countries. Just my 2 cents.
 

Accord2005NJ

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Auto-Union, that is very weak argument. They can sell and produce any oil in Germany, Italy, New Zealand, Japan that they could here. The thing is people there would be VERY hard to convince because they tend to THINK with their own heads. And by the way, they have 5W-30s there so why recommend even 10W-40 for the same engine in Europe. If I (for the argument sake only) accept your reasoning that 5W-20 is not available in Europe (which is more Automotively advanced the US), then why would they recommend 10W-40? Why not just 5W-30? Come on. This 5W-20 bull is just for the US and us, the "dumb" consumers.
 
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I dunno if they are "better protected". That implies that thicker is better. Is it? If so, where do you draw the line? 50? 60? 70? Obviously, it has to be drawn somewhere, why not 30? Why not 20? Why can't a 20 with modern additives and top-rate base oils protect PERFECTLY wel in engine with bearings made for it? Since cheap 30s shear down to 20s anyway, why can't a stable 20 do the job. Are you afraid of excess wear? Well, where is the wear? It must be somewhere, and UOA don't show it and teardowns are not likely to show it either. Can we say it together, 20 weight actually works *better* in engines that's it's called for.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Auto-Union: Can we say it together, 20 weight actually works *better* in engines that's it's called for.
Perhaps. But if this is the case, then why don't they spec 5W20 oils for ALL of their cars, regardless of where they are sold in the world? The original question regarded the fact that different weights are specified in different countries for the EXACT SAME engine. If 5W20 works *better*, then the question is why would they recommend a *worse* oil for the same car/engine in another country?
 

Accord2005NJ

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Auto-Union, you are going off the topic here. Now, you are saying 20 weight can be "just as good" as 30 weight. So what's the point (other then CAFE)? And if this is so "revolutionary" wouldn't you think that Europe would actually have this first? I mean, you think you are going to see 20 weight in Europe? Or in Mercedes, BMW (not to mention Ferrari?). No, 20 weight is a "compromise" that was introduced in the US only so that manufacturers can get better Corporate Fleet Fuel Economy [CAFE] rating and that's it. VW, Opel, Fiat, Seat, and all other brands (including Honda) continue to recommend 10W-40? Again, if you logic is correct then Honda would simply say use 5W-30 in Europe and thats it right? Why recommend 10W-40 if it does not provide better protection? Answer me that please?!
 
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Just because other viscs are allowed, does not make them better. FTR Fuchs Titan 0w-20 claims "safe in ANY engine". Run some and see for yourself, it might be true.
 
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Here is a theory. We are more progressive, more innovative in the US compared to much of the world. Which means we are much more willing to try a 5W20, when the rest of the world would say, we've used 40wt for 100 years, the queen uses 10W40, so by G0d, for the love of the crown, we are going to use it too, G0d save the queen
 
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Auto-Union, I see where you're coming from, and I don't necessarily disagree with some of your points. My question is, "Why not just recommend the BEST oil for the car you sell? Period." Obviously, something else is at play here (CAFE?) for an auto manufacturer - i.e. Honda - to recommend completely different viscocities for the very same car/engine combo. Surely Honda knows which oils protect their cars the best, don't they? So, why not just pick the ONE viscocity that protects the *BEST* (for each climate and driving style) and be done with it?
 
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Accord, your theories are full of presumptions and falsehoods. I said that the visc of a 20 weight is hardly uncharted territory-fact. You assume Europe would have 20 weight first, keyword: "assume". There are low HT/HS oil formulations in Europe, fyi. Why recommend 10w-40 if it is not better? I don't think it's a good/better/best system. It simply ALLOWS that visc, don't you get it? Now it's your turn to answer...where are the excess wear metals? Is 20 weight even available overseas?
 

Accord2005NJ

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Here is the link from Honda club in Croatia Europe (Honda tech answering the question about what oil is the best for VTEC engine). http://www.hondafanclub.hr/content/read/117/ Link is in Croatian (which I speak) and here is the jist of it; The tech is quoting I. Ichisima (Manager of Spoon Sports International - Honda Engines Toon Ups) who said that in his interview for Best Motoring International: "There is a semi sinthetic Honda Engine oil 15W-40 which is recommended for ALL Honda Engines including DOHC VTEC and DOHC iVTEC" He then continues to say that 10W-30 is also a good choice for these engines. If someone wants to translate the page from Croatian into English you are welcome to it but it my native tangue so.... So, 15W-40 guys. Not even 10W-40? 5-20????? I think the guy would ***** slap the reporter for even sugesting it? Comments?
 

Accord2005NJ

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Auto-Union, The 20 weight is not available because no one in their right mind would buy it. To give a comparable example, milk and meat which we dring and eat here full of hormons and antibiotics is also NOT available in Europe because people would not buy such garbage. Get it? Euro consumer (like it or not) tends to be a bit more informed and ready to think. See also the article above, and by the way the guy is talking about REGULAR Honda Engines (not sport versions etc.)
 
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"But if this is the case, then why don't they spec 5W20 oils for ALL of their cars, regardless of where they are sold in the world?" Why don't you ask "them" that, rather than have a guess?
 

Bill in Utah

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Does it really matter? [Confused] The UOAs are showing excellent for 5w-20. Sometimes (most of the times) better than other grades. [Cheers!] To answer your question; [Razz] Its so Honda USA can sell you another car in 100k miles because they don't want it to last past that mileage. [LOL!] or CAFE gas average Just run what you want and if you have a problem, hopefully it's out of warranty so you don't have to hassle with Honda USA. [No no] Also, we do not know if the engines are the same in every part! (computers, how they are programmed, SMOG controls, ETC) [I dont know] Take care, Bill [Coffee] PS: It looks like someone is looking for a "fight" [Roll Eyes] [ May 10, 2006, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: Bill in Utah ]
 

Accord2005NJ

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By the way on the page I posted you can see boxes with 15W-40 and 10W-30 oils that say (in English) HIGHLY recommended for Honda VTEC engines. As 5W-20 IS available in Japan, why would this (Japanese Honda insider) recommend 15W-40 and 10W-30 instead of 5W-20? Availability is not an isuse so????
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Accord2005NJ: Here is the link from Honda club in Croatia Europe (Honda tech answering the question about what oil is the best for VTEC engine). http://www.hondafanclub.hr/content/read/117/ Link is in Croatian (which I speak) and here is the jist of it; The tech is quoting I. Ichisima (Manager of Spoon Sports International - Honda Engines Toon Ups) who said that in his interview for Best Motoring International: "There is a semi sinthetic Honda Engine oil 15W-40 which is recommended for ALL Honda Engines including DOHC VTEC and DOHC iVTEC" He then continues to say that 10W-30 is also a good choice for these engines. If someone wants to translate the page from Croatian into English you are welcome to it but it my native tangue so.... So, 15W-40 guys. Not even 10W-40? 5-20????? I think the guy would ***** slap the reporter for even sugesting it? Comments?
Crack me up! Now we are defering to some tuner from Croatia who is not an expert and likely has no experience with 20 weight oils for advice? lol, the next time I'm in Croatia with my Mungen Spoon or whatever, I'll be shure to use some "whatever he says" oil.
 
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