5W-20 people - explain this please:

[sxg6]

well my final thoughts.

no one here is qualified to give an answer as to why one country recommends one type of oil, and some other country recommends another. everyone will have their own personal opinion on the subject, as we've already seen.

i dont think anyone can say one country is right, and another is wrong. motor oil has not yet been perfected, we are still learning, making changes, and making advances.

i understand im not answering your question at all, im simply saying while bitog members can answer many questions, this isnt one of them. only time will tell if 5w-20 is the real deal, or a bunch of CAFE backed garbage thats slowly destroying your engine.

 

[Auto-Union]

"protection of VTEC engines Honda recommends 30/40 weight"

Not according to my manual.

 

[Accord2005NJ]

Walmart in Europe?

I think when we colonize another plant, after the oxigen producing plant (or hospital), wallmart will be next (with incredible deals on space suits in all sizes, including childrens sizes with Sponge Bob's logos).

 

[sxg6]

actually that wasnt my final thought, this is.

to all the people who think 5w-20 is the devil, crappy, terrible oil which should never touch an engine...

why all the hatred and complaining about 5w-20... when uoa's show them protecting just as well, and in some cases, better than heavier oils?

without falling back on "uoa's dont show the whole story"... tell me why 5w-20 is soo bad when it does just fine in uoa's.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

I made a funny, but what about the ACEA issue?

 

[Accord2005NJ]

Auto-Union,

That's the point. Your manual is US mannual. I am talking about the same car, same engine, and Japanese and Euro manuals.

BRYAN - I would not accuse Europeans of being resistant to technological advances/changes. And even if you do, what about Japanese? They are VERY techno-prone and yet they stay away from this 20 weight. They mention it in their manual "for optimum fuel economy" but then they list 5-30 for compromise between fuel economy and protection and 30/40 weights for GOLD protection??? Japanese are very much into new techno stuff. Here is something interesting; new cell phone models first come to Japan, then Europe then US. Two years ago I bought Nokia in Europe (I use T-mobile here so phones are compatible) which as camera, radio, TV and whole bunch of other crap.

SXG6- fully agreed. And I don't meant to push my opinion on anyone - I just find the whole thing terribly interesting and I enjoy this discussion. Thank you for taking part in it.

 

[Accord2005NJ]

SXG6- I agreed with your previous post. Not the last one. I am not making a "devil" out of 5-20. I just don't fully trust it under all conditions. For normal driving in regular temperatures, with 3-4k OCIs I think it will stand the test of time. But I don't think it is better then 30/40 weights who have more "cushion" when it comes to sheering, lubricating etc.

 

[Rodbuckler]

I just have a hard time believing that Honda would go through all of the trouble to design and build a stiff and close tolerance engine for 5W-20, then make provision for 30 and 40 weight oil usage overseas. Something is fishy.

 

[Accord2005NJ]

Fuel economy wars. After I switched to 10-40 in my Accord, the fuel economy took a noticable dip. There is a great price/feature/value war for midsize category here and every ounce of advantage/marketing counts in this segment.

This is not an issue with afluent car buyers (mercedes, BMW etc.) who continue to use 40 weights.

 

[427Z06]

Accord2005NJ, several problems with your argument.

1. Your engine sold everywhere else is the same. Not correct if you include all the ancillary components.

2. "Silver, Gold, Platinum" implying "Good, Better, Best" protection is a false assumption. Strictly marketing mumbo jumbo.

3. Europe and Asia recommend thicker oils, proves that they are more advanced in their lubrication choices. BIG FAT FALSE. Europe and Asia are making the move to lower viscosity (but better) oils as we type. Get over your European Superiority fetish.

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article000463014.cfm?x=b11,0,w
(You can expect a similar move from the Europeans)

4. Honda engineers I've talked to would beg to differ with your "experts".

And finally, you come VERY LATE to this debate. Numerous BITOG members have multiple battle scars and several thin-thick war metals accumulated from years of pounding on each other in hundreds of threads. You're rehashing some of the the same points made for the thousandth time. You can accept the overwhelming evidence that shows these thin oils are doing a fine job where they're spec'd, or you can theorize all you want on why thick oils are better. Pick your oil, thick or thin, and be happy with your choice.

 

[Shannow]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Auto-Union:
Can you find 20 weight in those areas? If not...??? What API spec is on the shelves there? Can one fine SM oils there at all?

---

Yep, a lot of oils are SM, and we can buy Fuchs in a 20 weight, but it's not generally available.

30 weights aren't that common on the shelves, either, nor are there many 40 weights.

 

[Accord2005NJ]

427Z06,

1. Engine is very much the same. My dad has a 4 cyl VTEC in Europe and his manual specs 5-20, 5-30, or 10-30/40 depending on temp. I even shipped him engine parts from here because they were cheeper. 2.4 Liter VTEC is 2.4 Liter VTEC. Trying to find "some" differences (and if so which ones?) is a fible argument.

2. Marketing mumbo jumbo or not, the JAPANESE manual also specs 3 different oil weights. And again, Japan has plenty 20 weights oils but for best protection Honda Japan recommends 30/40 weights. I think it is marketing mambo jumbo for a stupid consumer to give him "one size fit all" oil. Because G.O.D. forbids we use our heads and have to think/chose???

3. You just insulted entire continent without any argumentative basis. What can I say. Typical. Asia/Japan already has the thinner oils but they only recommend 20 weights as fuel eceonomy alternative and NOT for best protection. Do you really think that the rest of the developed world is stupid and we are the only ones right when it comes to this? This is not a matter of Euro or Japan fetish - these are facts (i.e. that 20 weights are available but not recommended for the same engine for the best protection).

4. Well, those same Honda engineers in Japan and EU are talking "differently". In Japan 30/40 weight is recommended. Why? You honestly think we are more technologically advanced then Japan when it comes to engines and cars? Ford or GM is better in quality/technology then Honda or Toyota? I don't think so.

As for coming LATE - well, it is all a matter of perspective. I didn't know there was a deadline to debate the issue of 20 weight oils? Shouldn't this issue be revisited from time to time to include new information? How about science books? Should we keep the same ones from 1930's or maybe updated them from time to time?

And also, I am NOT accepting (NOR seeing) any "overwhelming" evidence that 20 weights are doing fine job. Time will tell. Furthermore, since you appear to be in the forces you know that there is a big difference between doing a fine job and doing an oustanding job. I want my oil to do oustanding job. Not just a fine job. Walmart oil mixed with pancake sirup can do fine job with 3k intervals.

Finally, no one really explained why the same engine gets different oil recommendation EVERYWHERE ELSE except US? Proponents of 20 weight speculate that it is "maybe" because it is not available (not true - See Japan), "maybe" because Japan and EU are technologically behind (and yet we drive Hondas that last longer then my 2000 Grand Am GT which saw more trips to the shop then a teenager hooked on a local mall), etc...etc.

The fact is, major OIL manufacturers (see castrol new zealand web site) recommend heavier oils for this car, HONDA recommends in Japan and Europe heavier oil for this engine/car, Japanese Honda Specialist (see above) recommends 15-40 and 10-30 for this engine.

And they are ALL wrong just because you decided to belive your own car manual?

I do not pretend to have the answer to the above-questions, but I am sure as h.eck certain you don't have them either. At least not yet. In the meantime, my engine will not see 5-20 oil. I will pursue my "Euro/Japan" fetish (happy now?) and pour something more substantial.

 

[windnsea00]

Does this really matter anyway? These arguments go on for pages with no conclusive evidence other than what other countries recommend. From what I know, I would say those Honda motors will last a good deal of time as long as they have a decent oil that is changed in a reasonable time regardless of the weight (within reason). Since it's your own car, run what makes you feel best may that be a 20 weight or 60 weight. It would be interesting though to have someone on this board from Germany give us UOA's for a Honda using 20 weight, 30 weight and 40 weight of typical driving there including some long stretches of high speed Autobahn usage to see what holds up best. Granted for the average US consumer that wouldn't matter much anyway.

 

[Accord2005NJ]

windsea00,

It is, I think, an interesting topic and it is actually good that people are passionate about their oil

 

[427Z06]

Accord2005NJ you keep repeating the same weakly based inferences we've seen here thousands of times. Sorry, I'm not wasting any more time on this. I've researched this subject extensively and it's a done deal for me. Let me suggest you do more research. Plenty can be found on the internet and here, search the threads.

 

[javacontour]

When you look at where most wear occurs, which is at start-up, one would think a 5W20 or 0W20 would be a superior oil, protecting engines better, and giving longer life than the 5W30 and 10W40 oils.

Toyota, well actually Scion, indicates in their TSB about changing to 5W20 and in some cases 0W20 that one of their reasons for specifying this oil is for better protection at startup.

Like many have mentioned before, we ran 20wt oils 5 decades ago without drama, so why not today?

 

[crashz]

Well - here's my take on the thick/thin oil debate.

Its all about the application. A well formulated 5w-20 is prefered in the US, not specifically because of the engine specs, but more for driving style and habits.

Why? Well in the Euro arguments above, it just hit me. How many times a day is the averge American car started and used? 2,3 4 cold starts a day? How many times does a European car get started? I don't know, but the European lifestyle as well as many other countries around the globe surely don't drive like we do. So my thinking is that the light oil is perfect for the short trips and many cold starts of the American lifestyle.

Just a theory of course...

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Well, another wrench into the gears is, ARE the engines in U.S.-bound Hondas THE SAME as Euro-based Hondas? No one is exploring whether the ENGINES are different. Why not? Application different, OIL different.

Hyundai puts out three different engines for the Accent. a 1.3, and 1.5, and a 1.6 here in the US. Not sure what continents get what engine outside the U.S.. Spec for my Accent with the 1.6 DOHC here in the U.S. is 5W-20 all seasons, except as an option, 5W-30 summer. 10W-30 ONLY if 5W-XX is not available.

Now, it'd be interesting if we had an Asian-continent driver of Accents, and a Euro driver of an Accent (or Aussie for that matter) to tell us what they're speccing for different engines.

The whole argument seems, well, pointless when no one is questioning whether Honda is installing the SAME engine built to the SAME specs in all the cars they sell all over the world.

I think most places outside the US get smaller engines. I'd think a Euro Honda will get a smaller engine than a U.S. Honda, because over THERE, a 1.8 or 2.0/2.2 4 cylinder engine is HUGE compared to most. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I was a betting man, I'd say they're different than U.S. models.

Which would of course, mean different oil? Or not..

 

[Drew99GT]

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Yep Drew, it's been dead for a while.. How about a horse skelaton?

Accord2005,
This thread is very old news and you are not thinking of any original arguments(trust me on this). Most of us have debated this issue too many times before and many of us have turned on our previous preconceptions. There is plenty of history of these hard headed wars to be found in the search feature. Once you learn to accept the overwhelming evidence of you may even feel the urge to try the speced oil. In the meantime good luck with your research.