5w-20 and engine longevity

[z917990]

Etcetera wrote:
"The first time I downloaded this, I misinterpreted it. I didn't really pay attention to the numbers. Now I see that it's miles per PPM of wear, backwards of how I personally think about stuff like this. I would have set it up as PPM wear per mile. Whatever.

It shows pretty clearly less wear with heavier oils for the given sample. It also agrees with my latest uoa. 5w30 showed less wear on my v10 than 5w20 or 0w20.

I averaged wear for iron for each oil viscosity listed. Miles per PPM of wear, larger number is better:

0w20 --- 217.81
5w20 --- 528.99
0w30 --- 614.24
5w30 --- 828.61
10w30 --- 1967.45
5w40 --- 271.17
10w40 --- 3554.60"

I averaged the miles per PPM for 11 used oil analysis using Mobil 1 0w-20 on this board (I eliminated those that used additives) and I got an average of 446.74 miles to get one PPM of iron. The range was between 160 miles and 1698 mile. I then averaged the miles to one PPM of iron for the most recent 11 used oil analysis using 5w30, both conventional and synthetic. I got an average of 501.21 miles for one PPM of iron with a range of 173 to 928. In other words, using the used oil analysis on this site as a criterion, it appears as if 0w-20 and 5w30 wear similarly, at least with iron levels. Just thought everyone would want to see different stats.

 

[darkdan]

There's 11 0w20 used oil analysis for modular motors on this site? I only have four on my spreadsheet.

 

[z917990]

No, not just for modular motors. I found 11 used oil analysis, all kinds of engines. I just wanted to see if 0w-20 was a bad as the previous poster's stats seemed to indicate.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

quote:

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Originally posted by z917990:
Etcetera wrote:
"The first time I downloaded this, I misinterpreted it. I didn't really pay attention to the numbers. Now I see that it's miles per PPM of wear, backwards of how I personally think about stuff like this. I would have set it up as PPM wear per mile. Whatever.

It shows pretty clearly less wear with heavier oils for the given sample. It also agrees with my latest uoa. 5w30 showed less wear on my v10 than 5w20 or 0w20.

I averaged wear for iron for each oil viscosity listed. Miles per PPM of wear, larger number is better:

0w20 --- 217.81
5w20 --- 528.99
0w30 --- 614.24
5w30 --- 828.61
10w30 --- 1967.45
5w40 --- 271.17
10w40 --- 3554.60"

I averaged the miles per PPM for 11 used oil analysis using Mobil 1 0w-20 on this board (I eliminated those that used additives) and I got an average of 446.74 miles to get one PPM of iron. The range was between 160 miles and 1698 mile. I then averaged the miles to one PPM of iron for the most recent 11 used oil analysis using 5w30, both conventional and synthetic. I got an average of 501.21 miles for one PPM of iron with a range of 173 to 928. In other words, using the used oil analysis on this site as a criterion, it appears as if 0w-20 and 5w30 wear similarly, at least with iron levels. Just thought everyone would want to see different stats.

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10W-40 sure looks good!

I'm suprised that 5W-40 shows a wear rate nearly as high as 0W-20!

Since I am running synthetic in so many cars, and I'm going to thinner oils, a study like yours would be very useful. Your limited sample sure makes 10-30 and 10W-40 look great!

I may have to run a Mobil 1 5W-20 used oil analysis, too bad I drained out the last of the 0W-20 with 6600 miles on it last weekend. I should have saved a sample! Duh!

My ppm wear rate for Redline 5W-40 was 1333 miles / ppm of Fe

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001686#000000

 

[darkdan]

The 0w20, 5w40, 10w30, and 10w40 samples are lacking. So I ignore'em.

I was mainly concerned with 5w20 vs 5w30.

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

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Originally posted by Thatwouldbegreat:
10W-40 sure looks good!

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Yeah man. I really like 10w40. And I just bought some 20w50 Synpower to thicken up my 10w40 a bit. If a 14 cSt 10w40 is good, a 15 cSt is even better.

"NEVER use 5w30 or 5W-20 oil because it is closer to a grinding compound than a lubricant." --Louis LaPointe

 

[Dad2leia]

Throwing my two cents in...How's about just using a very top dog 5w30 oil year round? That way, if you hot rod, tow, or drive hard like I do at times, you've got the extra protection that the 30 weight aspect can handle.

It would see that from what I've been reading, this viscosity seems to be the best all duty/purpose weight these days, without getting too thick or thinning down too much.

Feel free to correct my logic if it is wrongly constructed.

 

[bruce381]

"NEVER use 5w30 or 5W-20 oil because it is closer to a grinding compound than a lubricant." --Louis LaPointe"

This guy is so wrong it is funny.
bruce

 

[AcuraTech]

Hmmmm. THis topic has been beat to death and it still seems that the best anyone can come up with is anecdotal evidence. No one has yet proved with used oil analysis that Xw-20 has caused anymore wear than Xw-30. In the shop I work at we are starting to see a few high mileage cars from '03 (The first year 5w-20 was recommended in some cars). NONE of the cars have shown any sort of excessive wear issue or engine problems.

Do you think Honda/Acura would sacrifice their reputation for reliable engines with an oil that only improves mileage by a slight amount? Honda is allready under CAFE standards anyway due in some part because they do not make a production V-8.

The cars I see in our shop are, by default, not under "normal service", either. I live in the burbs of Chicago and traffic around here can and is ridiculous at times. During rush hour you are lucky to be at a steady cruise for more than 30 seconds before stopping for another 2-5 mins at a stoplight. Read: excessive idling.

Add to the fact that most people have the A/C cranking all summer and have OCI's of 7500 or more it seems that this oil has performed pretty well.

Granted, this is also my own "anecdotal evidence" but until somebody proves otherwise, I am going to continue to think that this oil can and does perform as well if not better than other standard weight oils.

Besides this, when is the last time you saw a late model vehicle that has had proper OCI's with engine mechanical wear/damage? I havent and I work on cars all day.......

 

[Dad2leia]

AcuraTech, how many miles do the vehicles that you work on have?

 

[MIAMI-DADE]

quote:

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Originally posted by bruce381:
"NEVER use 5w30 or 5W-20 oil because it is closer to a grinding compound than a lubricant." --Louis LaPointe"

This guy is so wrong it is funny.
bruce

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I think we all know now Louis LaPointe is a total idiot.

 

[AcuraTech]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dad2leia:
AcuraTech, how many miles do the vehicles that you work on have?

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Anywhere from brand new to some '03 models with up to 120k. No problems yet. Average OCI: 7500 miles.

BTW another tech I work with who used to work at a Honda dealer swore that putting 5w-20 in Passports (notorious for burning alot of oil) would prevent them from burning oil.

 

[MIAMI-DADE]

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve S:

Originally posted by 1999nick:
[qb]

Who wants a car to last 400,000 miles, anyway? That is 20 years at 20,000 miles a year. What would the rest of the car look like, inside and out?

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Well my last car was a 88 Town Car and had 300k and still look good inside and out and everything worked when i sold it even the a/c.

The other night coming from Miami airport was in a 98 Crown Vic and that had 400k and was running strong and everything worked in it.The driver told me it had original engine and transmission.He said he did 4 0CI.The only major thing he did was the a/c as down here you have no chice but to fix it.The car looked good 2.Inside and out.Of coarse he owned the cab and was the only driver.

 

[buster]

quote:

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BTW another tech I work with who used to work at a Honda dealer swore that putting 5w-20 in Passports (notorious for burning alot of oil) would prevent them from burning oil

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This could be from what Shell found, in that the film thickness is greater with a low viscosity oil around the top of the ring area.

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

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Originally posted by bruce381:
"NEVER use 5w30 or 5W-20 oil because it is closer to a grinding compound than a lubricant." --Louis LaPointe"

This guy is so wrong it is funny.
bruce

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Right. It's so funny I can't leave it alone. But seriously, while I don't spend much time in the used oil analysis forum, I don't recall hearing of any bad used oil analysis with 5w20. Sill I am scared of the stuff.

And my ol' F150 really does need a thicker oil.

 

[z917990]

OK - just to finish the number crunching that I started earlier: I took a sample of 11 of the most recent used oil analysis using the following viscosities (this a simple ratio of miles to one PPM of iron, rounded):

0w-20 - 446 (stated in earlier post)
5w-20 - 1364
5w30 - 501 (stated in earlier post)
10w-30 - 995

Using this very limited sample, 5w-20 is the clear winner. From the comments subsequent to UOA postings, driving style, engine type and engine condition contribute as much if not more to wear indicators than viscosity. I'm going to keep using 5w-20 Mobil 1 or Pennz. Platinum in my 2.4 litre Honda Accord. I do not think that 5w-20 is part of a corporate or government conspiracy. And I guess my original question has been answered (kind of). Thanks.

 

[ex_MGB]

Looks like it's unanimous, nobody embraces change like a BITOGer.

I think we're ready for the next turn of the screw, bring on some 5W-15 and let's run it up the flagpole!

 

[mechtech]

It's hard to believe that 10-40 is 16X better than 0-20 for wear.

 

[darkdan]

quote:

---

Originally posted by z917990:
OK - just to finish the number crunching that I started earlier: I took a sample of 11 of the most recent used oil analysis using the following viscosities (this a simple ratio of miles to one PPM of iron, rounded):

0w-20 - 446 (stated in earlier post)
5w-20 - 1364
5w30 - 501 (stated in earlier post)
10w-30 - 995

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Are those all from the same type of motor?

Obviously LS1/LT1 used oil analysis look VERY different then honda civic used oil analysis.

Mechtech, if you look at the spreadsheet you'll see that 10w40 only has one sample. So it's results aren't too meaningful since we're doing averages.

 

[TomJones76]

Look, the statistics for 0W20 are obviously garbage.
There's no logical explanation for those numbers based sheerly on viscosity.
The only remaining explanation is Mobil 1 0W20's "Redline-like" ability to suck wear deposits into suspension.