5w-20 oil and longevity

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I work as a courier for a Big hospital in Albuquerque. We drive Chevy and Ford Vans. WE do a lot of Start and stop. The Van I drive is a 99 Ford E-150 with the 4.2L V6 and it has 175,000 miles on it. The mechanics use 5w-20 oil and it seems to run fine. And they change it evey 5000-7500 miles depending when we can take it in. It gets about 18-20 degrees winter and 102-104 in summer. Here is what I am getting at, 5w-20 is a good oil and there are no worries as to logevity in an engine. If there were an issue with longevity Honda for sure would not use it they have a reputation to uphold. Ford is just ahead of the game. My 2003 Ranger V6 is fed 5w-20 and E-85 on a steady basis. E-85 is Denatured alcohol. The stuff you drink. [Smile] [Cheers!] I also tow a 2500lb boat with it and went 1400 miles 1 way to pick it up. My 2 cents
 

Kestas

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Have you ever seen an engine torn down after running 100K with E-85? I have. The BIG problem with these engines is the formic acid formed as a combustion by-product. All the internal engine components are etched brown with this acid. It looked like a milk chocolate explosion. Close laboratory examination of the components shows extreme loss of metal from acid etch when compared with wear from a properly maintained engine. You say you've driven 1400 miles on your new Ranger using E-85. Have you changed the oil yet? What did it look like? I wonder if the Motorcraft 5w-20 is properly formulated for E-85 engines. Report back how the engine fares after 100,000 miles. For anybody that is familiar with the problem of ferrite caps on the journal surfaces of ductile iron, I found an interesting consequential benefit with running E-85. The ferrite caps are etched away on the journal surface, so there's no danger with these caps damaging the bearings, and the graphite nodules remain standing proud and provide better solid lubrication for the crankshaft. I agree that 5w-20 oil is a good oil and there is basically nothing wrong with it. The only problem is that it's a synthetic (or synthetic blend), and it won't get wide acceptance among the public until general use of synthetic motor oil gets wide acceptance. Essentially, Ford and Honda are ramming synthetics down our throats, and some people still want to use dino oil.
 
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quote:
Here is what I am getting at, 5w-20 is a good oil and there are no worries as to logevity in an engine. If there were an issue with longevity Honda for sure would not use it they have a reputation to uphold. Ford is just ahead of the game.
Completely agree and your testamonial proves it. Look it's been said over and over and over again that you want to match the right viscosity with the right engine/tolerances etc. 20wts are doing fine! And if they are made well, they kick @ss. Experts on this website that have PHD's and tribologists backgrounds have stated these things yet no one listens. That bothers me more. Honda would NOT use ANYTHING that would tarnish their quality image. These automakers would take a HUGE hit if these oils didn't hold up. The 20wts in many cases are beating out the 30wts? Why I don't know but flow and the chemistry used could be better. So viscosity is only one part of the whole issue. [ February 06, 2004, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 

wwillson

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quote:
Originally posted by Kestas: Have you ever seen an engine torn down after running 100K with E-85? I have. The BIG problem with these engines is the formic acid formed as a combustion by-product. All the internal engine components are etched brown with this acid. It looked like a milk chocolate explosion. Close laboratory examination of the components shows extreme loss of metal from acid etch when compared with wear from a properly maintained engine. You say you've driven 1400 miles on your new Ranger using E-85. Have you changed the oil yet? What did it look like? I wonder if the Motorcraft 5w-20 is properly formulated for E-85 engines. Report back how the engine fares after 100,000 miles. For anybody that is familiar with the problem of ferrite caps on the journal surfaces of ductile iron, I found an interesting consequential benefit with running E-85. The ferrite caps are etched away on the journal surface, so there's no danger with these caps damaging the bearings, and the graphite nodules remain standing proud and provide better solid lubrication for the crankshaft. I agree that 5w-20 oil is a good oil and there is basically nothing wrong with it. The only problem is that it's a synthetic (or synthetic blend), and it won't get wide acceptance among the public until general use of synthetic motor oil gets wide acceptance. Essentially, Ford and Honda are ramming synthetics down our throats, and some people still want to use dino oil.
I run E85 in my Suburban for about 1/2 of the miles I put on it. There really isn't any change in the oil vs. when I only burn gasoline. You can look at the UOA I previously posted to see if you think the E85 is causing corrosion. BTW - you're making me worry about running E85 now! [crushedcar] Wayne
 
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I am waiting for you to hit 300,000 miiles! I want to see how thousands of these vechiles fare after 120,000 miles. THe first 120,000 is a given! 120,000-300,000 is the range I am interested in.
 
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With the 5-20's I want to see: 1. 10k OCI's...(none of this 3k stuff) 2. Drag strip/road course/track use 3. V-8 use 4. Reports on consumption quantity
 
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Dr.T, your questions are already answered. Crossbow has track use on M1 0w-20 M1 has been taken to almost 8k miles. Consumption has been as normal as any other. And some were in a V10. [Smile] Not a sarcastic question but have you been reading the UOA's? Why can't this issue be laid to rest? I really don't understand why. Can't the answer be that viscosity is dependent on the engine/conditions? I don't think anyone, including myself, is saying 20wts should be used in everything and are superior. I'm saying, in a car that calls for one, why not? [I dont know] [ February 06, 2004, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
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Maybe I am being a bit cenical! I just do not trust the warm fuzy reports we have gotten so far! Their are too few. I also wounder if they would have reported a thing if it had been anything but good???
 
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Dr.T I dont htink anyone would have a good lab test with 10k OCI and drag racing. Maybe with 3k OCI and Drag racing. 7500 OCi and regular use is all the motor oil is rated for in most cars. Im using 5w20 and will problay switch back to walmart synthetic 5w-30 since my mpg have went down with trop artic 5w-20
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. T: With the 5-20's I want to see: 1. 10k OCI's...(none of this 3k stuff) 2. Drag strip/road course/track use 3. V-8 use 4. Reports on consumption quantity
1. I've seen plenty of 30w, 40w and 50w UOA at less than 10,000 mile intervals that looked pretty bad. This would prove nothing. 2. As Buster stated...done. Check the UOA. Drag racing? I doubt we'll see it but I guess it's possible now with M1 0-20 or RL, RP racing oils. You've never seen an engine fail with good ol' 30w, 40w or higher a dragstrip? Nobody resisted the xw-20 more than I. I've only used 5w-20 3-4 times in my F150. The rest has been 5w-30. Once my stash of Chevron Supreme and Havoline runs out, I'm going to one of the 5w-20s (most likely Penzz, Motorcraft or Havoline). Mikep
 

tpi

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Could someone post examples of the changed "tolerances" and "clearances" used in support of the low viscosity oils? I see this mentioned often. [I dont know]
 
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I think that for the most part that arguement has been discounted many time around here. For some people, change is hard. No matter what was good enough before isn't good enough when it comes to the new oil. As far as the four points brought up: 10k OCI - only will happen if the oil can go that far. Most dino oils in ANY grade won't go that far without issue, why should a 5w20 have to prove itself? Ford recommends a 5000 mile standard duty service schedule. I've gone to 6000 using 5w20, but the cold beats down nearly any oil's TBN in the winter to keep intervals short. Track use - well, I own a 4x4 truck with a small V8 - whats the point? While I don't do that, I do use my truck as a truck, which works the engine hard. Trailer towing, full loads, off road, etc... V8 use - must have missed the UOA's on Ford V8's and V10's I guess. Consumption quantity - I use roughly 1/2 to 1 qt every 3000 miles using 5w20, no different than when I used 5w30.
 

Realgun

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Kestas. I pulled the boat 1400 miles home the truck has 13000 miles mostly E-85. I get better milage on Gas but when pulling my boat I get better mpg than gas. Do I care if my engine is chocolate no not really. I dont plan on keeping it more than 10 years. Would take 13 years to get 100000 miles on it. Dr. T I go 3000 per change and use 1/2 qt oil. The E-150 uses about a QT in 5000-7500. Why go 10ooo OCI. Cheap skate or reason? BTW the E-150 is a V6 mostly unloaded miles but 1-2 times a month we have to move Medical records or X-rays Very heavy and makes the Van sway on the free way. Oh well my Dad never used anything but Quaker State 10w-40. I am 40 years old BTW. WWilson most cars are using ethanol during the winter. It is required for clean air cities. About 5- 10% or E5-E10. [ February 07, 2004, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: Realgun ]
 
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Originally posted by goodoleboy: Im using 5w20 and will problay switch back to walmart synthetic 5w-30 since my mpg have went down with trop artic 5w-20
I would give the Motorcraft 5w-20 or the Pennzoil 5w-20 a try. Both are semi synthetic and have shown well in UOAs. The Motorcraft is made by ConocoPhillips like the TropArtic. I wonder if the basestock in the TropArtic is of a lesser grade.
 
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Originally posted by greencrew: I'm still looking for some examples of #1. If you know of any, please point them out to me.
How many 10,000 mile OCIs have you seen with any viscosity dino or blend?
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. T: With the 5-20's I want to see: 4. Reports on consumption quantity
Put me down for zero consumption in my Honda Element with 5W20 and 0W20. The engine is a 2.4 four.
 
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If the 5W-20 blends were priced as high as synthetics, I could see the argument against wide-spread adoption of that viscosity range. But, they're not priced like synthetics. They're cheaper to purchase than the "traditional" syn-blends, and some brands are shelf priced virtually the same as their other viscosity range counterparts. Hyundai America has finally come around a couple of months ago, or so, to recommending only 10W-30 and 5W-30 year 'round. If the company ever gives its OK for general use of 5W-20, I'll convert over in a heartbeat for my Sonata.
 
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Rebuttal... 1. Why 10k?...because that's what my owner's manual specs for OCI's (1994 BMW)....and many other European OCI's... 2. Track/Drag use?....why would M-1 need a 0-30R...they'd just recommend the 0-20! 3. V-8 use...I don't mean one manuf...I mean ALL of them. Why doesn't GM use the 0-20 in the Vette? Forget the 5-30....Does the 20 weight even meet the GM4718 spec? What about Dodge Viper, why don't they use the 0-20? Why does the Ford Cobra R spec the 15-50 and not the 0-20? 4. Consumption? One needs to look at trends...not just one, two or three intervals...especially when they're short OCI's an accurate comparison won't be found. And finally to re-iterate, all of the above apply to long-term use...not short-term/warranty period (100k mi.) use.
 
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