5w-20 and engine longevity

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I have read some papers about long term wear rates under various oil formulations. There are two opposing situations:

Contrary to popular belief, cylinder and piston ring lubrication can be better with lighter weight oils--that is the fluid film is thicker,...

At the other end, there are engines using in block camshafts with pushrods,... Thses can be engineered (with roller followers, trunions,..} to tollerate the light weight oils.

Conversely, overhead cam engines that directly push on the cam buckets don't seem to be able to be engineered to put up with really thin oils. Overhead cam engine with finger followers can be rollerixzed, but nobody does this yet.
 
I use the Mobil One 0W20 and will use 5w20 when the 0W20 stash runs out. If one does a search on this web site, UOA's show the Honda and Ford spec 5w20 oils to be VERY robust.

As to the CAFE requirements, for sure there is a movement to the lighter oils. They also put less moly due to the fact moly has a tendency to degrade the emissions systems. So Honda for example has a 3 yr/36k engine guarantee but the emissions warranty is rougly twice that. So not surprisingly they would tend to care more about the warranty's on the emission systems!!?? Not too long ago 20w50 was the viscosity of choice and 10w40 was considered that "untried, unproven viscosity"

Again I use it in a Honda Civic VP because that is what is recommended by the oem. I have no concerns (due to oil) where I would not fully expect to get 250,000 miles and beyond with 10k and 20k OCI's.
 
20wt oils are perfectly fine. If your racing the car or driving it hard, have a UOA done to see that it is holding it up. The only recent thing that had me a bit concerned was the article about 20wt GF-4 oils. GF-3 20wts were great, but how about now with lower additives?
 
It seems to depend upon on how you drive and where you live. The 5w20 oils seem to do fine in the US, and although it might be changing it seems that heavier oils are recommended outside of the US. Awhile back I downloaded a manual from the Ford site for a non-US vehicle, and they recommended a heavier oil than they did for the same vehicle in the US.

In another thread someone posted wear values for a 5w20 oil standard, it was obvious why they don't use the stuff in Europe.
 
Thats all Ford uses these days.Most of my family run panthers with the 4.6 in Miami heat with idling at times with a/c on of coarse and all seem happy campers with it.

Its semi/sytheic of coarse.I would NOT use a 5w20 dino though in this heat.
 
Havoline 5-20 after 4000 mile OCI Terry said:This is an excellent report and an impressive lube. End of story.
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quote:
Originally posted by buster:
...Under high speed, high load conditions, I'd feel better with a 30wt oil or even a 40wt, however, UOA's on here suggest 20wts can handle hard driving as well...
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IMHO, this is an excellent indication of the lack of severity of service conditions, regardless of what the owner/operator might think.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mitch Alsup:
Conversely, overhead cam engines that directly push on the cam buckets don't seem to be able to be engineered to put up with really thin oils. Overhead cam engine with finger followers can be rollerixzed, but nobody does this yet.
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Mitch, could you please clarify for me what you mean? I assume you refer to European manufacturers given their recommendations for relatively higher-viscosity oils even here in NA.

However, if I understand you correctly, this is exactly what Honda (and Ford to a lesser extent), the champion of low-voscosity oils, is using in their engines (the low-viscosity oils) to beautiful effect. Did I misinterpret?
 
No one truly knows for sure!I feel safe saying that in about 10 years we should know if we are going to see any new trends due to this viscosity. One of the problems I see though is that not many people use the 5W20! I have yet to see anyone buy a quart of 5W20 or 0W20 at a parts store or retail store at all! I do not know anyone in real life that has used it or will use it. I do not know any mechanic at private garages that carry it either.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Geoff:
As an example, the engine in our Land Rover Discovery has a non-roller old style cam/followers and large oil passages. The dealer (factor maintenance program) uses Castrol 20w-50 and there were TSBs that said that "dropping" to 10w-40 was acceptable in colder conditions to aid starting. These engines don't make a lot of oil pressure and rely on the volume thrown up there - the bypass valve kicks in at 50 psi.

US owners report worn cams and valve problems (the lifters bleed down on hot engines with low pressure so the valves don't open enough). You don't hear about these problems from European owners, where 5w30 is not the convention.
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I thought the V8 used in the Discovery (prior to the switch to the Jaguar based V8 in the new models) was the old Buick based OHV pushrod V8.
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
One of the problems I see though is that not many people use the 5W20! I have yet to see anyone buy a quart of 5W20 or 0W20 at a parts store or retail store at all!
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Interesting, I noticed in the Walmarts around me that the 5w20 bottles clear off the shelves relatively quickly, especially the Motorcraft 5w20.

Another thing I find fascinating, is the people who have the most faith in UOAs predicting wear in an engine, totally ignore the great results we've seen in virtually all the 5w20 UOAs.

I would think more people would be concerned with the lubrication needs of their automatic transmission and/or sludgemonster engine than continuing to fret over what looks to be a well studied subject by lubrication engineers.

P.S. Mitch Alsup thanks for posting a link to that paper. I was looking for it the other day and couldn't find it to save my life.
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quote:
I thought the V8 used in the Discovery (prior to the switch to the Jaguar based V8 in the new models) was the old Buick based OHV pushrod V8.
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I don't know about the Discovery, but the Rover V8 was the Buick aluminum V8 of the 60's.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Allan:
the Rover V8 was the Buick aluminum V8 of the 60's.
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Talk about Acoustic Emissions, anyone remember the distinctive sound of these engines installed in Buicks?
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Another reason for 5W-20 oils is EPA related but strictly
emissions. Engings WARM UP FASTER with lighter wt
oils thus getting all the emission stuff on the engine working
faster. They don't work well when the engine is not up to
operating temp.

I always pondered why in winter here in the Detroit area that
the oxygenated fuels were mandated. It's because cold cars, even new ones pollute like crazy when not up to temperature.
I don't mean just the heater begining to work but the oil up to
temp.
Craig
 
I am currently using Amsoil 0w30 in my Acura TL ('04).

I would consider a 5W-20 but am uncertain which one.
I would lean toward Amsoil again but I have a yen to
try Red Line.

What thinks you mavens .
Craig
 
In response to the original question, I remember reading that member airbus posted that he has an 01 Civic with 169,000 miles on it and ran all Mobil 1 0W20 oil in the thread, "Those with 150,000 miles or more please check in..."
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mitch Alsup:
"Mitch, could you please clarify for me what you mean?"

see the links at : http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000494

and click on the article : http://www.iantaylor.org.uk/papers/IMechEFE2000.pdf

At the end of page 20 in a section called "Impact on durability" and at the top of page 21 they discuss the relevent data.
Click to expand...
Where are all these 2.9 HTHS 5w20s they speak of? Did someone ship them some redline or something?
 
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