5k OCI Overkill: M1 EP vs Pennzoil Ultra Platinum

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SavetheRimBrake

Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
233
Vehicle: 2022 Civic 1.5t Direct Injected
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Driving Style: Commuting and generally easy driving/MPG chasing
Filters Used: 15400-PLM-A02
Fuel Used: Top Tier 87 Octane
Annual Mileage: 15-20k

I know both of these are kind of overkill, but being extra protective of the engine since this is my first new car which I'd like to keep for a long time. I'm between M1 EP and PUP since they seem to be the two best off the shelf offerings, without diving into AMSOIL. I like the M1 because I've used M1 products for 2 decades. I like the PUP since its made from Natural Gas, and claims to offer superior protection for its viscosity. I had actually ordered M1 EP but Amazon cancelled my order so I am using it as an opportunity to explore some other options. NOT interested in alternate suggestions for oil filters, NOT interested in alternate suggestions for fuel, simply want to know of these two, which is the better oil (price not being a factor as they are close enough, IMO). My thought process with going to an extended oil for short intervals, is it SHOULD have a better additive package designed to go 15-20k miles, so changing it out at 5k makes me feel a bit better about the turbocharger. I did run M1 0w-20 in my Prius for intervals up to 10k miles, but there was no turbocharger or DI, so I really feel more comfortable paying a bit more for an extended oil and changing it sooner for this vehicle.
 
The kind of protection you are looking at is provided by the HT/HS of the oil. Brand isn't going to do it.

Extended protection oils are primarily about TBN retention over a longer period of time, changing either one of your choices at 5K won't make any difference. If you want to protect the engine then go for an oil that has a manufacturer approval with proven oxidation resistance such as VW 504 00 or BMW Longlife-04.

Several choices of oils like this such as Pennzoil Euro L (less expensive) or Mobil 1 ESP. Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 is also API SP and might help with mitigating LSPI if that's a concern.
 
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Flip a coin or buy whatever is cheapest with API SP on the label. Scuttlebutt is the fuel dilution was an issue with early 1.5T so you may want to go up a grade to 5w30 or order a UOA first to confirm whether you have a lot of fuel (i.e. over 5%) and then decide if you want to go up a grade. The premise is that fuel, being thinner than oil, will reduce the viscosity of the oil in the sump. A lot of fuel could cause the oil to fall out of grade.
 
BMWTurboDzl said:
Flip a coin or buy whatever is cheapest with API SP on the label. Scuttlebutt is the fuel dilution was an issue with early 1.5T so you may want to go up a grade to 5w30 or order a UOA first to confirm whether you have a lot of fuel (i.e. over 5%) and then decide if you want to go up a grade. The premise is that fuel, being thinner than oil, will reduce the viscosity of the oil in the sump. A lot of fuel could cause the oil to fall out of grade.
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Yea those early issues have been remedied AFAIK, and my location and commute would not make the car a real candidate for the issue either (no short commutes, no persistent cold weather). I might send the next sample off to BS since I have a few jugs, but honestly the oil doesn't smell much like fuel to me, no more than my loosely built turbo MX5 which has always come back with TR
I guess I'm trying to figure out if the PUP is better enough than M1 EP (if at all) to warrant spending an extra $10-15 per year to use it instead.
 
Cleanneon98 said:
Yea those early issues have been remedied AFAIK, and my location and commute would not make the car a real candidate for the issue either (no short commutes, no persistent cold weather). I might send the next sample off to BS since I have a few jugs, but honestly the oil doesn't smell much like fuel to me, no more than my loosely built turbo MX5 which has always come back with TR
I guess I'm trying to figure out if the PUP is better enough than M1 EP (if at all) to warrant spending an extra $10-15 per year to use it instead.
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Blackstone cannot properly measure fuel dilution. They have been shown to be wildly inaccurate in the past, not just “4x understated”. Their method of estimating fuel dilution is based on flash point which in and of itself is a test that has a wide reproducibility.

So don’t base any decision on a Blackstone analysis. Get one that uses gas chromatography to measure dilution instead.

And again, brand is not a determining factor here in your quest for longevity.
 
Cleanneon98 said:
Yea those early issues have been remedied AFAIK, and my location and commute would not make the car a real candidate for the issue either (no short commutes, no persistent cold weather). I might send the next sample off to BS since I have a few jugs, but honestly the oil doesn't smell much like fuel to me, no more than my loosely built turbo MX5 which has always come back with TR
I guess I'm trying to figure out if the PUP is better enough than M1 EP (if at all) to warrant spending an extra $10-15 per year to use it instead.
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None of us could tell you that. Both are great
 
kschachn said:
Blackstone cannot properly measure fuel dilution. They have been shown to be wildly inaccurate in the past, not just “4x understated”. Their method of estimating fuel dilution is based on flash point which in and of itself is a test that has a wide reproducibility.

So don’t base any decision on a Blackstone analysis. Get one that uses gas chromatography to measure dilution instead.

And again, brand is not a determining factor here in your quest for longevity.
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Good to know. Not sure I’ll go through all that testing though, since I do short drains anyway.
 
Cleanneon98 said:
Yea those early issues have been remedied AFAIK, and my location and commute would not make the car a real candidate for the issue either (no short commutes, no persistent cold weather). I might send the next sample off to BS since I have a few jugs, but honestly the oil doesn't smell much like fuel to me, no more than my loosely built turbo MX5 which has always come back with TR
I guess I'm trying to figure out if the PUP is better enough than M1 EP (if at all) to warrant spending an extra $10-15 per year to use it instead.
Click to expand...
Understood. Btw better is in part relative to OCI. The longer an oil can go the "better" it is. If you're not willing to take advantage of that then you're wasting your money.
 
This is not a direct comparison. 10,000 miles or one year is recommended for my VW GTI. Only I get about 7000 miles per year on it and do it then. Of course, that is a turbocharged DI engine. I think you are find going more miles between oil changes than 5000 for good care of your Civic and save a little money.
 
BMWTurboDzl said:
Understood. Btw better is in part relative to OCI. The longer an oil can go the "better" it is. If you're not willing to take advantage of that then you're wasting your money.
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But a longer lasting oil would have more additives to last longer, which should also provide more protection even in the short term, or is that not how that works?
 
Allaneddie said:
This is not a direct comparison. 10,000 miles or one year is recommended for my VW GTI. Only I get about 7000 miles per year on it and do it then. Of course, that is a turbocharged DI engine. I think you are find going more miles between oil changes than 5000 for good care of your Civic and save a little money.
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I think part of me wants to be extra cautious, and its not that expensive, and we just recently bought a house so I finally have the opportunity to do my own work on the cars again, so might be trying to take advantage of that too haha. Like I said, I've run plain M1 synthetic to 10-11k in the past, but that was before the DI-t, and I know I can probably get away with longer intervals here too, just feel better about 5k
 
Cleanneon98 said:
But a longer lasting oil would have more additives to last longer, which should also provide more protection even in the short term, or is that not how that works?
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The M1 EP 5W-30 is what I use in the modified Jaguar in my avatar, the car spec's an 18K OCI and specific Castrol 0W-20, designed to protect timing chains. The 3L engine is known for modest to moderate fuel dilution, timing chain and bearing failures. Hence my choice of higher viscosity.

Back on topic, a valid argument can be made for non EP M1 oils, as the anti wear additives are near identical in the normal M1 oils. And they pass the very same oxidation tests. Even more interestingly, the EP does not have a higher TBN (to combat acids over time) or a higher viscosity at 100C.
 
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Cleanneon98 said:
Vehicle: 2022 Civic 1.5t Direct Injected
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Driving Style: Commuting and generally easy driving/MPG chasing
Filters Used: 15400-PLM-A02
Fuel Used: Top Tier 87 Octane
Annual Mileage: 15-20k
Click to expand...
With your driving habits, 5k should be very conservative with either of those oils. Based on your annual mileage, I'd assume that most of your trips are not very short, and based on your MPG chasing driving style, I'd assume that your oil isn't seeing extreme hot temperatures and shear stress. Those are the factors most important for oil life, and are primarily what the oil life monitor accounts for.

Personally, I would base your OCI on the percentage remaining on the oil life monitor. It will adjust the OCI for seasonal changes and driving habits, and will probably suggest shorter intervals over the winter in your climate. Changing the oil with 20-40% oil life remaining, while using one of those oils, or even regular Mobil 1 or PP, should give you peace of mind. All of these oils meet the same standards, and which one is best is anybody's guess.

If you want to minimize engine wear, your money would be better spent on high efficiency oil filters than on using expensive oil with short OCIs.
 
twX said:
With your driving habits, 5k should be very conservative with either of those oils. Based on your annual mileage, I'd assume that most of your trips are not very short, and based on your MPG chasing driving style, I'd assume that your oil isn't seeing extreme hot temperatures and shear stress. Those are the factors most important for oil life, and are primarily what the oil life monitor accounts for.

Personally, I would base your OCI on the percentage remaining on the oil life monitor. It will adjust the OCI for seasonal changes and driving habits, and will probably suggest shorter intervals over the winter in your climate. Changing the oil with 20-40% oil life remaining, while using one of those oils, or even regular Mobil 1 or PP, should give you peace of mind. All of these oils meet the same standards, and which one is best is anybody's guess.

If you want to minimize engine wear, your money would be better spent on high efficiency oil filters than on using expensive oil with short OCIs.
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Yep, 35mi work commute each way, 3x per week, plus misc driving around. The last 2 changes I did, oil monitor showed 50%, could have probably gotten to 6,000 before I hit 40% but that’s not really significantly more. On the wife’s HRV with the 1.8L, I follow the monitor. Depending on whether we get her the turbo or hybrid next will dictate that routine too
 
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