QS 5W40 is basically Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40. It is correct oil.
For ghat price, hard to beat.
2015 BMW N20 X1 UOA 5K MILES NON-EURO OIL
- Thread starter KEVINK0000
- Start date
- Status
For ghat price, hard to beat.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
The OP isn't running QSFS 5w30 because he's ignorant to what's recommended by BMW. He's trying out what he wants at conservative oci. I'm sure he understands the ramifications if wrong.
D
Deleted member 89374
How much you want to bet that:
- He didn't know about Quaker State Euro 5W-40 - it's usually on sale for $15.99 at Wally World, and they can barely keep it in stock. It's Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 and Shell Helix Ultra SP 5W-40 - the same oil.
- He thought that buying a $20.99 jug of Quaker State Full Synthetic 5W-30 and spending $38 on a UOA was a beautiful way to show everyone how he saved money by spending more money than he had to in the first place. He could have spent less money and used the correct lubricant simultaneously had he done his research. Castrol EDGE Euro 5W-30 & 5W-40 also meet the spec and cost $21.99 per 5-quart jug, and they were probably across the aisle at Wally World from the Quaker State lubes.
Ok. But far cry from claiming that:
1. It is good UOA (it is not)
2. Based on claim it is good UOA, pretending that any oil is fine and that “experts” are wrong.
As far as I am concerned he can run extra virgin olive oil. But, that oil took beating from that engine and fuel dilution is nothing but wishful thinking to justify choice. N20 is not known to have fuel dilution issues. It is DI engine, but that is about it. Unless there is injector leak.
BMW sorted out things much better in these engines than pretty much anyone else. They don’t have LSPI issues, they have very effective PCV, DI doesn’t dilute oil. Only big issue is timing chain guides. But, engine is demanding on oil. And there are a lot of turbo failures bcs. neglected maintenance (and various tuning).
D
Deleted member 89374
Too funny!!!
Oh, but the OP is sending another oil sample to a second lab to ensure there is no fuel dilution!
It's just sunk cost fallacy, because why stop now, when you can spend $100 on useless UOAs to show everyone that you can run the wrong $20 oil in a performance engine? And you're absolutely right, the wrong lubricant will cause a turbo charger to fail.
Do you mean M62 540? If so. BMW did not back spec that engine for sub 3.5 HTHS oils. The min HTHS for this oil is 2.9 by virtue of the Dex1Gen2 approval.No GC, Motul, Ravenol, Liqui-Moly, M1. Plain old American QS. The Horror!
New formula QS Full Synthetic. Chosen for low SAPS formula to avoid LSPI potential issues. (I know N20 is not known for this but... Arizona heat and son's car. He talks about "brake boosting" from stoplights
View attachment 83762
As others have said the N20 has ravaged this fill which isn't surprising on even such a short OCI as 5k miles.
Best of luck.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
You make excellent points. My assumption was based on his comments addressing ownership of previous BMW(s). I wish him the best of luck either way.
I wish QSFS were $15.99 around here. The best price currently is $20/jug. Still a fine price for Euro spec oil.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
He's talking about the 540 RAT blog that's been the topic of so much contention (lambasting) on here.
D
Deleted member 89374
I think that way too many people are spreading wrong information on the Internet, including the blog you mentioned. Sometimes I wonder if people are doing it just because they're bored and have nothing better to do.
Correct.
Your posts are very funny. Thank you.Too funny!!!
Oh, but the OP is sending another oil sample to a second lab to ensure there is no fuel dilution!
It's just sunk cost fallacy, because why stop now, when you can spend $100 on useless UOAs to show everyone that you can run the wrong $20 oil in a performance engine? And you're absolutely right, the wrong lubricant will cause a turbo charger to fail.
D
Deleted member 89374
Have no fear, you're not the only one who did something stupid. I've been running 0W-40 in my 5.7L HEMI thinking that I'm doing it a favor. Turns out that it causes MDS to be always off and causes the cam phaser (yes, it only has one camshaft) to delay changing the position. We all do stupid things. I deserve a big pile of
for my own mistake.To respond:
I said comments welcome, and I got some comments. Thank you all, even the flamers.
By the way, I am an Amsoil dealer. (More flames incoming) So if I want to spend my money on oil, I can and I do.
The cost is not the issue, I think that becomes obvious when you think a little bit. This is a hobby, more or less.
If you look at the UOA, pretend its not a Blackstone UOA, and the fuel dilution reads +5%. How does the UOA read to you now? Does it look different?
What else is wrong with this UOA other than the low vis? Besides the low vis, how does it look compared to other N20 reports?
What did not convey in the original post is that this was almost exclusively a short trip UOA. I mean less than 10 miles each start up kind of short trips.
A detail I left out which just came to mind, is that there was no perceived oil consumption for the UOA. It started at full and ended that way. Does that change anything for you?
I will send the next sample to two labs, BS and another. What lab is preferred for accurate dilution measurements? Recommendations please.
I said comments welcome, and I got some comments. Thank you all, even the flamers.
By the way, I am an Amsoil dealer. (More flames incoming) So if I want to spend my money on oil, I can and I do.
The cost is not the issue, I think that becomes obvious when you think a little bit. This is a hobby, more or less.
If you look at the UOA, pretend its not a Blackstone UOA, and the fuel dilution reads +5%. How does the UOA read to you now? Does it look different?
What else is wrong with this UOA other than the low vis? Besides the low vis, how does it look compared to other N20 reports?
What did not convey in the original post is that this was almost exclusively a short trip UOA. I mean less than 10 miles each start up kind of short trips.
A detail I left out which just came to mind, is that there was no perceived oil consumption for the UOA. It started at full and ended that way. Does that change anything for you?
I will send the next sample to two labs, BS and another. What lab is preferred for accurate dilution measurements? Recommendations please.
I did not do anything stupid (this time). But thank you.Have no fear, you're not the only one who did something stupid. I've been running 0W-40 in my 5.7L HEMI thinking that I'm doing it a favor. Turns out that it causes MDS to be always off and causes the cam phaser (yes, it only has one camshaft) to delay changing the position. We all do stupid things. I deserve a big pile of
D
Deleted member 89374
Okay, so kindness and humility aren't your thing. I was trying to be somewhat supporting, hoping that you recognize the error of your ways. Instead, you decided to double down. For the sake of civilized discourse, I will explain to you briefly the difference between what I did and what you did wrong:
The 5.7L HEMI shares many critical components and clearances with the 6.4L HEMI, which calls for 0W-40 for added protection, as it's tuned for performance. Not that the 5.7L HEMI is not a performance engine, because it is, but Chrysler wanted to get more MPG out of it. As such, running 0W-40 in it will in fact offer better wear protection, however, it will hinder the ability of fast cam phaser movement and equally fast MDS actuation because now I have more oil pressure but less oil volume. The PCM is programmed to calculate the viscosity curve of the oil that's running in the engine by using oil temperature and oil pressure. If it detects a higher viscosity lubricant than 0/5W-20, it will disable MDS and it will slow down the VVT system by declaring the cam "Out of Sync". It will, however, not set a code in the PCM. A ton of people drive their HEMIs this way, not suspecting why their MPG sucks, but rather being happy that it's silky smooth and quiet. And, for what it's worth, it works, because it will make the engines last longer, especially under harsh conditions (towing, drag racing, etc.), but they will burn more fuel. I found out what was wrong by using the appropriate scan tool and looking at the appropriate readings. I will correct my mistake by running 5W-20 again.
Now, you did the exact opposite. You put in your engine a lubricant that offers less protection and is entirely inadequate for your application and can, and will, in fact, harm your engine. You didn't save money. You didn't save time. You didn't save anything. You could have purchased the correct oil for the same money or less. Castrol EDGE Euro 5W-30 or Quaker State Euro 5W-40 would have been perfect candidates, amongst many others. Instead of correcting your mistake, you're now doubling down, trying to rationalize it. Unfortunately, no one on this site will help you with your confirmation bias or accept your warped rationale.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
A 405F flashpoint does not point to 5% fuel though, not even remotely close. I would highly encourage you to use another lab that does GC (like Polaris or Oil Analyzers) to confirm this however, as you don't seem to want to take our word for it.
This thread for example, shows a 340F flashpoint and 5% fuel:
UOA Yamaha F300 outboards - Yamalube syn 5w30
850 hours on engines. Note high sodium (Na), thin viscosity, and low flashpoint in both engines after 80 hours. No oil added.
bobistheoilguy.com
There are others, but I'm not inclined to search them out at this juncture.
It doesn't matter what it looks like compared to other UOA's, that's not what the tool is for, the tool is to determine the condition of the lubricant and its suitability for continued use. Yes, one can infer a mechanical issue from a significant elevation of a particular wear metal or perhaps contaminant ingress for the air intake tract, but beyond that, UOA's are not tools that lend themselves to the comparison of the performance of different lubricants.
Good. Polaris or Oil Analyzers, both do GC fuel. You can buy the OA kits directly through AMSOIL.
Here are 2 reports from my son's previous car, 2018 Mazda 3. These both had a similar usage pattern to the BMW, but the BMW was used on even shorter trips. This was the newest SP Maxlife.
Do you all see anything interesting?
Here is the link to that thread.
Do you all see anything interesting?
Here is the link to that thread.
2018 MAZDA 3 2.5 MaxLife Synthetic new formula 5W-30 5500 MILES
My son's car. Looks like 300k plus engine like his last 2.3l. New version of Maxlife. Lots of moly. What do you think?
bobistheoilguy.com
I did not say 405f when I asked to you imagine 5% fuel. I just asked to imagine if this was 5% fuel. How would it look to you then?
I think it does matter, with many complex qualifications, when compared to other UOAs. Why are we even here then?
When I posted this UOA, I knew there would be a lot of different opinions and pushback, that is why the first post was somewhat tongue in cheek.
Nobody yet has seen my point in doing so, however. Its pretty plain at this point if you read the thread and all the responses all the way through. I am not playing games, just trying to inspire some thought and conversation.
Maybe have your wife, significant other, or other non-gearhead read through. They might have a different perspective. This statement applies to everyone here, not singling out Overkill, who is taking the time to help, without snark.
But, let me say this, I take what you all have said seriously, and if this oil has indeed mechanically sheared significantly, I will consider that.
I don't take people's word for it when I hold a differing view. I differ, you differ, so we discuss.
I will take your word for it on which lab to use next time, since I have no opinion of my own.
Last edited:
Thanks for the reply, I was interested in your cam phaser plight, have you confirmed in some way that the oil vis is actually causing your issue?
You should correct your sig.
D
Deleted member 89374
- You are misusing UOAs. Their primary purpose is to ascertain the condition of the lubricant in your drivetrain (engine, transmission, etc.). Therefore you need to have multiple samples analyzed to establish trends. Those samples have to be from the same drivetrain component in the same vehicle, which in your case is the engine.
- You are comparing two UOAs of two different lubricants used in two markedly different engines. You can't do that. Well, you can. However, it will steer you to the wrong conclusions.
The software I'm using might give me faulty readings. It's an app called JScan. It won't surprise me if it is. In some parts, it says MDS is active, then other readings say it isn't. Otherwise, the truck runs great.
This reads confusing, and there is no way only two solenoids are active. It also says that my intake cam is okay, but my exhaust cam is out of sync by a certain percentage. The problem is that this engine has only one cam (it's a huge cam) that handles intake and exhaust for both cylinder banks. I would put my money on faulty readings. I'm not the first one to run 0W-40 in this engine, and when towing, it protects better than 5W-20. I may need to eat some humble pie on this one.
As far as your BMW I can say this: I'd love to have one. They are nice cars. Please take good care of it. As a rule of thumb, engines are very tolerant if you go up in viscosity and oil quality, but not so much when you go down. Quaker State Euro 5W-40 is Shell Helix Ultra SP 5W-40, Shell's top of the line high performance lubricant. It can be had for a bargain for what it is. Just use that and you won't regret it. If you think you have fuel dilution, it wall handle it better than the ILSAC 5W-30, as it will handle shearing much better. @TiGeo used that QS 5W-40 at the track several times and it did well for him. Just look for his UOAs.
Here are my "mixed" and "faulty" readings. Before I make the final decision on what to do, I'd like to double-check my readings with other software and consult a friend.
- Status
