2011 HEMI 5.7 oil recommendation

[SteveSRT8]

Use a 20 weight period though unless you disable MDS.

Sorry, but this implies damage and it's simply not true.

Neither the new 09-on Eagle or the older 5.7 newer Hemis will be harmed in any way by thicker oils. All it does is alter the way MDS functions. Everything still works and MDS still engages, etc. Just slightly altered.

We've been hashing this out since 04 on the Hemi boards, the 20 weight is PREFERRED but not mandatory.

 

[electrolover]

kind of off topic i know but had to ask
you guys had any problems from the MDS in the hemis?

 

[SteveSRT8]

Not a peep. If you want I can refer you to our high mileage thread which is full of 5.7's and 6.1 LX cars with extremely high miles.

Actually very reliable engines.

 

[chevman4life]

I run 0w30 in my 2010 Ram Hemi and have had no problems whatsoever with the MDS. Just took a trip to Jackson, MS and the truck got 21 mpg, so I don't believe there are any issues there with a thinner oil giving better mileage or altering the MDS system. Oil pressure only raised slightly from the FF 5w20, less than 5 psi on cold start up. I currently have over 20k on the truck and the engine is as smooth as silk. I have never been asked at the dealer what oil I use either. The HEMI is a great engine!

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Use a 20 weight period though unless you disable MDS.

Sorry, but this implies damage and it's simply not true.

Neither the new 09-on Eagle or the older 5.7 newer Hemis will be harmed in any way by thicker oils. All it does is alter the way MDS functions. Everything still works and MDS still engages, etc. Just slightly altered.

We've been hashing this out since 04 on the Hemi boards, the 20 weight is PREFERRED but not mandatory.


How have you been hashing out the 20 weight/MDS issue since 2004 when it 1st came out in 2005? Or are you talking late 2004 and discussing 2005 models?

I generally defer to you on these things as you seem to really know what you are talking about but Chrysler is very specific about using 20 weight only or problems may occur. I will follow the words of the company that mfg's the vehicle on this. Bottom line is the system was designed to run on 20 weight so that is what I will use. Definitely when the vehicle is under warranty.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: silverrat
If you are going to keep it only 3 years then use the cheapest approved 5w20 conventional and filter you can.


If you're only going to keep it 3 years, can I buy it when you're done?? Someone's gonna get a truck with only 10% of the life used for about 30% of the initial purchase price

 

[MJB09SRT8]

when i said that using a weight other than 5w-20 may cause the MDS lifters to act up not damage the motor or anything like that what it can do is cause them to collaps slower or pump up slower opon MDS kicking on or off, the 6.4 Hemi uses 5w-40 as all new SRT cars and SUV's do now and they all now have MDS.

Montrose

 

[Jeff_in_VABch]

Definately go for the early oil change. As for the oil, any of the 5W20 or 5W30 synthetics will do well in it. The HEMI is a pretty tough engine with few oil related problems.

The 5W30 will offer more protection and has no effect on the MDS or fuel economy whatsoever. I have a 2008 HEMI (58K miles) that runs on 5W30 in summer and XW20 in winter.

The HEMI is a gas guzzler, no way around that, but they run great. I would get a programmer for it at some point to set it free and experiment with the MDS activation, torque management and all the other parameters.

Starting in 2010 the HEMI uses a 190F (vs 203F 2009 back) thermostat in all applications. This gives you a little cooler oil and engine, so dont worry about changing it to a low temp stat.

I just bought the wife a 2011 GMC Acadia. No performance there whatsoever. Did change the oil at 1K though.

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
Definately go for the early oil change. As for the oil, any of the 5W20 or 5W30 synthetics will do well in it. The HEMI is a pretty tough engine with few oil related problems.

The 5W30 will offer more protection and has no effect on the MDS or fuel economy whatsoever. I have a 2008 HEMI (58K miles) that runs on 5W30 in summer and XW20 in winter.

The HEMI is a gas guzzler, no way around that, but they run great. I would get a programmer for it at some point to set it free and experiment with the MDS activation, torque management and all the other parameters.

Starting in 2010 the HEMI uses a 190F (vs 203F 2009 back) thermostat in all applications. This gives you a little cooler oil and engine, so dont worry about changing it to a low temp stat.

I just bought the wife a 2011 GMC Acadia. No performance there whatsoever. Did change the oil at 1K though.

here it comes. hope you got a flame suite

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: silverrat
If you are going to keep it only 3 years then use the cheapest approved 5w20 conventional and filter you can.


If you're only going to keep it 3 years, can I buy it when you're done?? Someone's gonna get a truck with only 10% of the life used for about 30% of the initial purchase price



440;

You are a good guy and know a lot. What I will say is not an atatck. Mostly made in good humored jest although I am serious too...

I know that used trucks and suv's depreciate a lot and especially when gas prices surge but only 30% of purchase price if 3 years old? Not around here.

My current truck is a 2008. Will be 3 years old this November. Only has 22,900 right now so maybe 24-24,500 by then. I am considering a change around that time frame.

I can assure you though you would not get my truck for only 30% of the initial purchase price. I wouldn't take that even on a trade if gas was $10 a gallon. 30% of the initial price( $37,995 )would only be about $11,500. NOT!

$19-$22K minimum.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
Definately go for the early oil change. As for the oil, any of the 5W20 or 5W30 synthetics will do well in it. The HEMI is a pretty tough engine with few oil related problems.

The 5W30 will offer more protection and has no effect on the MDS or fuel economy whatsoever. I have a 2008 HEMI (58K miles) that runs on 5W30 in summer and XW20 in winter.

The HEMI is a gas guzzler, no way around that, but they run great. I would get a programmer for it at some point to set it free and experiment with the MDS activation, torque management and all the other parameters.

Starting in 2010 the HEMI uses a 190F (vs 203F 2009 back) thermostat in all applications. This gives you a little cooler oil and engine, so dont worry about changing it to a low temp stat.

I just bought the wife a 2011 GMC Acadia. No performance there whatsoever. Did change the oil at 1K though.

here it comes. hope you got a flame suite


I am actually going to refrain from comment on it.

People can do what they want with their vehicles. I don't understand why you wouldn't follow the mfg's oil weight guidelines but to each his own.

 

[Jeff_in_VABch]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I am actually going to refrain from comment on it.

People can do what they want with their vehicles. I don't understand why you wouldn't follow the mfg's oil weight guidelines but to each his own.

I am recommending to follow the mfg guidelines, just for the 2500 truck using the exact same HEMI engine.

For heavy duty use such as in a 2500 truck, they recommend 5W30, better HTHS.

The HEMI is a gas guzzler. Some people would think (me included)that the 5W20 was for increased fuel economy. However, I have tracked the fuel economy on every tank of fuel run throught this HEMI (58K miles). There is no measureable difference in a 20 or 30W oil on fuel economy in summer usage. I have not used 30W in the winter. The 20W might produce an improvement over 30W fuel economy in winter.

One reason to run a 20W in the HEMI (in winter) is for cold start oil flow. The HEMI has a long initial start high idle cycle (1400 RPM for 30 seconds, varies) to light off the converters. It does this every time you start it (unless you have a programmer). In the winter on really cold days you would be asking for oil flow issues with a conventional 30W. I can see the mfg asking for a 20W for this reason alone.

IMO, the manufactures dont know jack about their current vehicles. They are broke and short staffed. They are in a struggle to survive, not a struggle to build an engineering masterpiece. They base decisions on attorney opinions and cost-benefit criteria. Their insurers and actuaries have a hand in the entire design process.

Look at the SVT and SRT vehicle owners manuals where engineers actually evaluated performance criteria and you can see engineering based decisions on oil and lots of other interesting items.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I am actually going to refrain from comment on it.

People can do what they want with their vehicles. I don't understand why you wouldn't follow the mfg's oil weight guidelines but to each his own.

I am recommending to follow the mfg guidelines, just for the 2500 truck using the exact same HEMI engine.

For heavy duty use such as in a 2500 truck, they recommend 5W30, better HTHS.

The HEMI is a gas guzzler. Some people would think (me included)that the 5W20 was for increased fuel economy. However, I have tracked the fuel economy on every tank of fuel run throught this HEMI (58K miles). There is no measureable difference in a 20 or 30W oil on fuel economy in summer usage. I have not used 30W in the winter. The 20W might produce an improvement over 30W fuel economy in winter.

One reason to run a 20W in the HEMI (in winter) is for cold start oil flow. The HEMI has a long initial start high idle cycle (1400 RPM for 30 seconds, varies) to light off the converters. It does this every time you start it (unless you have a programmer). In the winter on really cold days you would be asking for oil flow issues with a conventional 30W. I can see the mfg asking for a 20W for this reason alone.

IMO, the manufactures dont know jack about their current vehicles. They are broke and short staffed. They are in a struggle to survive, not a struggle to build an engineering masterpiece. They base decisions on attorney opinions and cost-benefit criteria. Their insurers and actuaries have a hand in the entire design process.

Look at the SVT and SRT vehicle owners manuals where engineers actually evaluated performance criteria and you can see engineering based decisions on oil and lots of other interesting items.




I am not talking oil weights for MPG reasons. I am talking oil weights due to mechanical requirements of MDS.

The 5.7L engines technically aren't "exactly the same" between the 1500's and 2500 & 3500 HD models though because from 06 on the 1500 Ram's with the 5.7L all have MDS whereas the HD trucks do not have MDS to contend with. Extra parts/different lifters in the 1500's w/ MDS vs those 5.7L's w/o MDS. The MDS system uses oil pressure to activate it so IMO you need to use the recommended oil which is 20 weight.

MDS is only available in 1500 Rams. Had I known you were talking HD trucks I would not have commented as I did. You can't recommend HD truck oil requirements for those with a 1500 and MDS though. Not unless MDS has been deactivated as I mentioned earlier.

Yes, for some Rams w/ 5.7L 5W-30 was the recommended weight...

03-04 = 5W-30( 10W-30 allowed for )All Models
05-06 = 5W-20 All Models
07+ = 5W-20 All 1500's w/ MDS & HD's under 14,000lbs GVWR
07+ = 5W-30 HD's over 14,000lbs GVWR

IMO if you have a 2006+ 1500 w/ MDS stay with a 20 weight. If I had a non MDS Ram w/ 5.7L, regardless of model, or I had MDS deactivated, I would run 5W-30.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

Thanks for all of the replies. I have decided to go with Mobil 1 5w-20 starting at the 1,000 mile mark and use either wix or mopar filters. Cheers!

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Use a 20 weight period though unless you disable MDS.

Sorry, but this implies damage and it's simply not true.

Neither the new 09-on Eagle or the older 5.7 newer Hemis will be harmed in any way by thicker oils. All it does is alter the way MDS functions. Everything still works and MDS still engages, etc. Just slightly altered.

We've been hashing this out since 04 on the Hemi boards, the 20 weight is PREFERRED but not mandatory.


How have you been hashing out the 20 weight/MDS issue since 2004 when it 1st came out in 2005? Or are you talking late 2004 and discussing 2005 models?

I generally defer to you on these things as you seem to really know what you are talking about but Chrysler is very specific about using 20 weight only or problems may occur. I will follow the words of the company that mfg's the vehicle on this. Bottom line is the system was designed to run on 20 weight so that is what I will use. Definitely when the vehicle is under warranty.


Not bashing you, man. Not at all. But we had 5.7's with MDS on the road (cars) a little earlier than most know. Lots and lots of members have experimented with oils, especially the "mod crazy" with cams and such. Almost never any problems with MDS, even with the milder aftermarket cams.

It's a real fact, totally proven in hundred thousand mile driven cars and trucks. MDS is only very slightly altered in its operation by different oils, NOT disabled or damaged in any way.

Obviously if warranty is involved you would want to follow the manufacturers instructions but that 20w oil is just a desperate attempt at fuel mileage!

 

[Jeff_in_VABch]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


It's a real fact, totally proven in hundred thousand mile driven cars and trucks. MDS is only very slightly altered in its operation by different oils, NOT disabled or damaged in any way.

Obviously if warranty is involved you would want to follow the manufacturers instructions but that 20w oil is just a desperate attempt at fuel mileage!


Steve:

I completely agree with you.

In a 1500 Hemi truck, I actually dont think the MDS provides any benefit anyway and usually leave it off. On MDS, the engine will not produce enough torque to move a heavy quad cab 4X4 without perpetually going in and out of MDS and causing the accompanying torque converter lockup shenanigans.

In cars, it does seem to work okay.

Also, IMO you would be crazy to run XW20 in the older HEMIs if you still run the 203F thermostat.

Jeff

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


It's a real fact, totally proven in hundred thousand mile driven cars and trucks. MDS is only very slightly altered in its operation by different oils, NOT disabled or damaged in any way.

Obviously if warranty is involved you would want to follow the manufacturers instructions but that 20w oil is just a desperate attempt at fuel mileage!


Steve:

I completely agree with you.

In a 1500 Hemi truck, I actually dont think the MDS provides any benefit anyway and usually leave it off. On MDS, the engine will not produce enough torque to move a heavy quad cab 4X4 without perpetually going in and out of MDS and causing the accompanying torque converter lockup shenanigans.

In cars, it does seem to work okay.

Also, IMO you would be crazy to run XW20 in the older HEMIs if you still run the 203F thermostat.

Jeff


Who is saying run XW-20 in the older HEMI's? I am not sure how to take that? Do you mean someone is saying run 20 weight over the recommended 30 weight or are you disagreeing with Chrysler's called for weights?

People say to use 20 weight where MDS is present and/or the mfg calls for it. I don't think anyone is crazy to run the mfg's specified oil weight. I personally would rather run 5W-30 than 5W-20 but I am old school and would rather run 20W-50 than 5W-30 truth be told.

I will run XW-20 however where the mfg says to. I will be especially vigilant with that with a special system like MDS where the mfg( right or wrong )says it matters. Unless it is soemthing like the 05 5.7L Ram's where 5W-20 was solely for CAFE reasons and the engine was identical to the previous year where 5W-30 was allowed I will stay with what the mfg calls for.

In a 2005 5.7L Ram I would not heistate to run 5W-30. I would not hesitate to run 5W-30 in any 03-08 5.7L that did not have MDS as it is the same engine internally. BY the same token I would not hesitate to run 5W-20 in any 5.7L Ram either. Either weight can be run( MDS engines not included IMO ).

I agree MDS does nothing for MPG in the Ram trucks. However, FWIW, I have a 1500 QC 4WD and MDS has no trouble staying on. It does not go in and out constantly. I drive conservatively however and I am not constantly changing RPM's and being heavy on the accelerator.

 

[kkreit01]

Mine ran real smooth on PU 5w20. Currently, I have Trop Artic 5w20. There's no problems with it, but it did run smoother, more quiet on PU. I'll probably settle on PU once my "experimenting" is over. I only always run 5w20.

 

[Jeff_in_VABch]

NHHEMI:

To me, a 2008 and older is an "older" HEMI. That covers years which may call for 5W20.

The MDS is not any "special system", it is extremely simplistic in operation. I have a 2008 HEMI in the shop torn down now. It's very simple stuff.

Have you installed a MDS light on your truck or have an aftermarket exhaust? With either one of these, you quickly realize how often the MDS is cycling. It's crazy.

FYI, I drive my HEMI truck very conservatively on-road. Im the idiot driving the speed limit everyone honks at trying to milk the best possible economy out of it. However, when I do run it hard, it's harder than 99.9% of HEMI owners. The recommended 5W20 would almost certainly cause an engine failure.

Jeff

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
NHHEMI:

To me, a 2008 and older is an "older" HEMI. That covers years which may call for 5W20.

The MDS is not any "special system", it is extremely simplistic in operation. I have a 2008 HEMI in the shop torn down now. It's very simple stuff.

Have you installed a MDS light on your truck or have an aftermarket exhaust? With either one of these, you quickly realize how often the MDS is cycling. It's crazy.

FYI, I drive my HEMI truck very conservatively on-road. Im the idiot driving the speed limit everyone honks at trying to milk the best possible economy out of it. However, when I do run it hard, it's harder than 99.9% of HEMI owners. The recommended 5W20 would almost certainly cause an engine failure.

Jeff



I have a 2008 5.7L Ram as I have stated many times and that is shown in my signature. No I don't have an MDS light. I currently have aftermarket exhaust but I could tell even with the stock system. You can hear the change and even feel it. MDS stays on in my truck for long periods of time and it engages very quickly( i.e. low speeds ). I end up in Tow/Haul mode most times around town as it drives me crazy when MDS kicks in( the noise somewhat but mainly the vibration which reminds me of a fouled plug or two ). 40 MPH and up I can hear it but it isn't so rough so I take it out of T/H.

MDS is special in that it is not something the average engine has parts wise and it is not something the average engine does. That is all I mean. The fact it operates off engine oil pressure make me want to use only the mfg's recommended oil weight. I know how it works and have explained that on here in the past. It is not just a standard V8. Special solenoids and special lifters involved.

I find the comment that 5W-20 would almost certainbly cause an engine failure to be crazy. Sorry, no offense meant, but I just have to say [censored] on that.