2010 Mitsu Ralliart / 2.0 L turbo AWD oil question

[wemay]

Not money,but neccessity. If Mitsubishi is advising to use coventional, the car isn't modified or ever tracked, I don't see the point. All hingeing on 3750 OCI, mind you. If I were going 7000 OCI I would go syn. I settled on Mobil Super 5000. I appreciate the concern though. Good to have all the input from everyone.

 

[wemay]

Just read my manual again 3750 for regular / 5000 for severe schedule.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Just read my manual again 3750 for regular / 5000 for severe schedule.


I'm assuming that should be reversed. Knowing that, and if warranty is your concern, then running synthetic to 5,000 miles seems like the logical choice.

With my type of driving, which is usually pretty tame, but with frequent full-boost romps, I most certainly would not run Mobil Super out past 3kmi.

While I'm definitely not a "I do it for peace of mind" kinda guy, there are limits, and running a mineral oil in a turbo car out past 3kmi without sending out a sample for analysis does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

You've got to seriously think about your driving style and determine whether cheaping out on oil will result in minimal risk. While Mobil Super will perform just fine while putzing about town and on the highway, fuel dilutions, high temperatures and pressures may, even if for short duration, tax the oil beyond its capability to 100% protect the engine. Whether this means a minimal, insignificant increase in wear or an unacceptable and possibly engine-risking risk I don't know. All I know is that I would NOT decide on mineral oil SOLELY because of the interval. There are plenty of moderately-priced synthetics out there that will perform exceptionally well. It's simply not worth it.

The added benefit of running a higher quality oil will be the ability to extend your interval if you can't change it on time for whatever reason, i.e., you're at 3,750 miles and have to leave for a last minute 1,000 mile road trip.

 

[wemay]

You're right, 3750 = severe, sorry about that. That will remain my interval as well, never to go over 4k wich has NEVER happened. My driving habits have become very tame with time. Rarely do I open her up for more than a passing move. Track and dyno days were when I had my Evo. Last minute trips? Wife's car. Lol

 

[gathermewool]

Why own the car at all then? It's not really the most comfortable, practical OR economical. FWIW, I've thought the same about my STI, but the hatch and AWD are practical, and it doesn't make sense to trade, since I got such a good deal on it. That's my excuse for still playing "boy racer."

 

[LineArrayNut]

Not hating :/, if I coulda swung the finances I'd of bought a wrx sti or evo. I had to buy a hail damaged car to fit the payments on the 2.0T, lol! I sure drive it like I bought a real hot hatch!

I think the OP may be overstating the strength of a recommendation for conventional being adequate to the needs by the company via email and the manual and an absolute edict to NOT USE SYNTHETIC OR IT'LL BLOW UP! Like the rotary guys have.

Wemay, I really think you need to look at this as a don't use more than you need, sure, but don't stick your head in the sand either kinda deal. Nothing in my manual says squat about conventional or synthetic in specific, but the short OC intervals are indicative of something. I'd be absolutely floored if Mitsu really would say that you can't use better oil than is spec'ed.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Interesting to note that despite the Rotary guys saying "conventional only" the actual racers use SYNTHETICS!

Most highly tuned cars, turbo or N/A, spec shorter intervals for many reasons. Notable is fuel dilution.

It's the reason my car is factory spec'd for synth at 3k mile intervals.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: LineArrayNut
Not hating :/, if I coulda swung the finances I'd of bought a wrx sti or evo. I had to buy a hail damaged car to fit the payments on the 2.0T, lol! I sure drive it like I bought a real hot hatch!

I think the OP may be overstating the strength of a recommendation for conventional being adequate to the needs by the company via email and the manual and an absolute edict to NOT USE SYNTHETIC OR IT'LL BLOW UP! Like the rotary guys have.

Wemay, I really think you need to look at this as a don't use more than you need, sure, but don't stick your head in the sand either kinda deal. Nothing in my manual says squat about conventional or synthetic in specific, but the short OC intervals are indicative of something. I'd be absolutely floored if Mitsu really would say that you can't use better oil than is spec'ed.


No, not overstating at all, please don't misinterpret my view. I clearly understand that a good syn is ULTIMATE protection and neither the manufacturer or the oil giants suggest dino is the only lube we are relegated to use. In fact, they do 'recommend' syn for 'premium' protection. My point i s only that conventional 5w30 is the requirement and not syn. Trust me I've been a syn user all my life and found this puzzling as well. Until I did the research. Synthetic just isn't a must and the advances in conventional are such that they provide all the protection needed for the average driver's needs, even turbo owners at responsible oci's (Mobil advises Mobil Super 5000 as the meeting this spec requirement). If the Manufacturer required syn, I would use syn. Someone also said, 'why own the car then?' Well, for the looks,It's a hatch, AWD, turbo beast and I love Mitsubishi (their financial woes not-withstanding). I take enjoyment knowing that the power is there if I ever need it. You don't need to ring it out to enjoy it.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: LineArrayNut
Well, think of as a marketing ploy. The boy racers will pony up for synthetics for their topline versions readily. The more pedestrian versions, well, they don't want the stigmata of having to run high dollar specific oil.

Hyundai did the same thing with the 2.0T. Sure, it'll run just fine on regular 87 octane and dino oil. But if you talk to the engineering guys, they'll roll their eyes and say, um yeah, well, it'll give 10 more hp and ft/lb torque if you run premium... and run 5w-40 for added performance (ie. pretty much a synthetic oil).

I think it's really a no brainer. If you follow the sales, the price of OTC synthetics is really no higher than walking into a store and buying dino cold. Spread the OC's over your life ownership of vehicle as a percentage of total cost and they'll be less than a percent by far.


I cannot change my vehicles oil in our community so I use Mobil Express:

15kmiles a year...
5 changes x $25 = $125 per year on dino
3 changes x $75 = $225 per year syn

 

[wemay]

From oilspecifications.org concerning API SN

Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control systemcompatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.

 

[gathermewool]

Again, every application is different. A mineral oil with a good additive package may suffice in a low boost, relatively low stress turbo-charged engine, where as a stouter oil may be more prudent in a high-boost, high hp/liter application.

Personally, I feel that even though I didn't burn any oil using the API-SM Cam2 oil, that a synthetic oil with lower volatility than the max required by GF-5/SN, as well as better oxidative resistance, higher viscosity, and an additive package that may possibly lean toward a more aggressive anti-wear package is beneficial, even for some one with a short interval.

Furthermore, all it takes in an engine with high cylinder pressures is one good knock event to cause damage. If not actual damage to the piston, then maybe in the form of a spun bearing. While no oil can prevent spinning a bearing should you have massive amounts of knock, it is my belief that an oil with high HTHS (stable viscosity, even in areas of the motor experiencing high temperatures,) and an overall better additive package than those oils limited to GF-5 or SN (resource conserving) additive levels for emissions control systems reasons.

In the end, if you drive as gently as you say you do, then choosing something like Mobil Super will probably be just fine, but I'd not sleep well at night unless I sent out a sample after 3-4k to ensure that I'm not experiencing oil-killing fuel dilution or any unusual trends caused by driving mostly gently combined with occasional romps.

 

[artificialist]

I have dealt with so many turbocharged gasoline engines that ran conventional where it was allowed, and each one got heavy varnish.

This is why I run synthetic oil in all turbocharged gasoline engines.

Also, be sure to change the gear oil in the transfer case and rear differential.

 

[wemay]

@ Matt - The Ralliart boost levels are drastically lower than that of the EVO, 13.3 vs 22.4 max PSI. Also much lower than a WRX for that matter. Already ordered the sample mail-in kit from Blackstone.Trust me, this car is babied except for the aforementioned very rare romp. I do appreciate your insights.

@ Artificialist - both gear and transfer case oils have been done, so to the SST fluid. I used Pentosin FFL-2 with an SSP disposable filter. All done at 30k miles.

 

[wemay]

Oil changed this past weekend with Mobil Super 5000 5w30 and Mobil M2808 filter.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Again, every application is different. A mineral oil with a good additive package may suffice in a low boost, relatively low stress turbo-charged engine, where as a stouter oil may be more prudent in a high-boost, high hp/liter application.

Personally, I feel that even though I didn't burn any oil using the API-SM Cam2 oil, that a synthetic oil with lower volatility than the max required by GF-5/SN, as well as better oxidative resistance, higher viscosity, and an additive package that may possibly lean toward a more aggressive anti-wear package is beneficial, even for some one with a short interval.

Furthermore, all it takes in an engine with high cylinder pressures is one good knock event to cause damage. If not actual damage to the piston, then maybe in the form of a spun bearing. While no oil can prevent spinning a bearing should you have massive amounts of knock, it is my belief that an oil with high HTHS (stable viscosity, even in areas of the motor experiencing high temperatures,) and an overall better additive package than those oils limited to GF-5 or SN (resource conserving) additive levels for emissions control systems reasons.

In the end, if you drive as gently as you say you do, then choosing something like Mobil Super will probably be just fine, but I'd not sleep well at night unless I sent out a sample after 3-4k to ensure that I'm not experiencing oil-killing fuel dilution or any unusual trends caused by driving mostly gently combined with occasional romps.



Actually ran into a friend today who now works at Tires Plus/Tire Kingdom. He drives an EVO. Well, we got on the subject discussed here and i mentioned i just changed my oil and it was to conventional. He extended the offer to change my oil for this one time, free, to Kendall GT1 semi-syn 5w30. He said, as you have, that he understands i may be ok with the conventional but (btw) Tires Plus/Tire kingdom charges the same for an oil change using semi syn Kendall GT1 as Mobil Lube Express does using Mobil conventional. He did see in his computer that conventional is required but didnt care. Filter? same, just repackaged Mobil M2808 / Champion PF2808. 3,750 OCI. So, that is what i did.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Again, every application is different. A mineral oil with a good additive package may suffice in a low boost, relatively low stress turbo-charged engine, where as a stouter oil may be more prudent in a high-boost, high hp/liter application.

Personally, I feel that even though I didn't burn any oil using the API-SM Cam2 oil, that a synthetic oil with lower volatility than the max required by GF-5/SN, as well as better oxidative resistance, higher viscosity, and an additive package that may possibly lean toward a more aggressive anti-wear package is beneficial, even for some one with a short interval.

Furthermore, all it takes in an engine with high cylinder pressures is one good knock event to cause damage. If not actual damage to the piston, then maybe in the form of a spun bearing. While no oil can prevent spinning a bearing should you have massive amounts of knock, it is my belief that an oil with high HTHS (stable viscosity, even in areas of the motor experiencing high temperatures,) and an overall better additive package than those oils limited to GF-5 or SN (resource conserving) additive levels for emissions control systems reasons.

In the end, if you drive as gently as you say you do, then choosing something like Mobil Super will probably be just fine, but I'd not sleep well at night unless I sent out a sample after 3-4k to ensure that I'm not experiencing oil-killing fuel dilution or any unusual trends caused by driving mostly gently combined with occasional romps.



Actually ran into a friend today who now works at Tires Plus/Firestone. He drives an EVO. Well, we got on the subject discussed here and i mentioned i just changed my oil and it was to conventional. He extended the offer to change my oil for this one time, free, to Kendall GT1 semi-syn 5w30. He said, as you have, that he understands i may be ok with the conventional but (btw) Tires Plus/Tire kingdom charges the same for an oil change using semi syn Kendall GT1 as Mobil Lube Express does using Mobil conventional. He did see in his computer that conventional is required but didnt care. Filter? same, just repackaged Mobil M2808 / Champion PF2808. 3,750 OCI. So, that is what i did.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: wemay
I would agree, if my OCI were 5000 miles but I have always run 3750 mile OCI even with synthetics (anal). My question is, is running a good conventional every 3750 miles the same as running a synthetic every 5000, 10000 or 15000 miles.


There is a lot of UOA evidence that show that a good conventional oil can perform just as well as an expensive full synthetic if you are not pushing the OCI boundaries.
If you want to know what your OCI should be, the only reliable way is to do a few UOA's to find out and then change oil type and compare the results to see if the oil type matters, which it probably won't.
In my opinion the important thing about selecting an oil is to get the viscosity range and category or approvals correct and then to make sure you buy a good major brand oil. Quality seems to matter more than the exact type of oil.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: wemay
I would agree, if my OCI were 5000 miles but I have always run 3750 mile OCI even with synthetics (anal). My question is, is running a good conventional every 3750 miles the same as running a synthetic every 5000, 10000 or 15000 miles.


There is a lot of UOA evidence that show that a good conventional oil can perform just as well as an expensive full synthetic if you are not pushing the OCI boundaries.
If you want to know what your OCI should be, the only reliable way is to do a few UOA's to find out and then change oil type and compare the results to see if the oil type matters, which it probably won't.
In my opinion the important thing about selecting an oil is to get the viscosity range and category or approvals correct and then to make sure you buy a good major brand oil. Quality seems to matter more than the exact type of oil.



I have decided to use Kendall GT1 5W30 synthetic blend . Many great reviews here and elswhere. Keeping the OCI at 3750.

 

[wemay]

I want to thank Matt and Artificialist. You guys and a few of my turbo running friends have attempted to sway my 'required is good enough' mentality. When I get something in my head, I can be very stubborn. 1500 miles from now I will begin using synthetics again. Valvoline Synpower 5w30. You're right.

 

[wemay]

Great news! HOA eased regulations to allow fluid change in YOUR OWN DRIVEWAY. Another issue for a different time. But, as this is the case, it has allowed me to return using Royal Purple 5w30.