2009 Honda Pilot - Engine Piston Damage
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^^^Likewise. There is nothing wrong with dino as long as the interval is appropriate.
Likewise, while most synthetic users do not utilize its full OCI capabilities, a quality synthetic can be cost effective.
Likewise, while most synthetic users do not utilize its full OCI capabilities, a quality synthetic can be cost effective.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Going back to OP's vehicle 3years 75K miles; unless it was used as a taxicab in NYC I don't see how it could have been all the stop and go traffic. This vehicle would have lived most of its life running on highway to put that kind of mileage. If we all understand one thing, highway driving is very easy on oil.
Something is not adding up.
Adam's was predominantly highway too. That's when the VCM is in use most. It's the active bank that is cooking the oil. It would appear that the VCM is over-stressing the active cylinders on the highway.
In a normal vehicle, highway miles would be easy on the oil. In the Honda V6 VCM, they appear to be exceedingly hard miles.
Ed
Going back to OP's vehicle 3years 75K miles; unless it was used as a taxicab in NYC I don't see how it could have been all the stop and go traffic. This vehicle would have lived most of its life running on highway to put that kind of mileage. If we all understand one thing, highway driving is very easy on oil.
Something is not adding up.
Adam's was predominantly highway too. That's when the VCM is in use most. It's the active bank that is cooking the oil. It would appear that the VCM is over-stressing the active cylinders on the highway.
In a normal vehicle, highway miles would be easy on the oil. In the Honda V6 VCM, they appear to be exceedingly hard miles.
Ed
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Going back to OP's vehicle 3years 75K miles; unless it was used as a taxicab in NYC I don't see how it could have been all the stop and go traffic. This vehicle would have lived most of its life running on highway to put that kind of mileage. If we all understand one thing, highway driving is very easy on oil.
Something is not adding up.
Highway miles ARE normally easy on oil - but in the case of Honda's VCM engine, this is where it activates VCM and the problem occurs. In this instance city driving would be much easier on the engine and oil. There have been reports of failures, just not widespread. I imagine that it is a combination of a lot of long high speed highway trips and taking the MM out to the limit with conventional oil.
Going back to OP's vehicle 3years 75K miles; unless it was used as a taxicab in NYC I don't see how it could have been all the stop and go traffic. This vehicle would have lived most of its life running on highway to put that kind of mileage. If we all understand one thing, highway driving is very easy on oil.
Something is not adding up.
Highway miles ARE normally easy on oil - but in the case of Honda's VCM engine, this is where it activates VCM and the problem occurs. In this instance city driving would be much easier on the engine and oil. There have been reports of failures, just not widespread. I imagine that it is a combination of a lot of long high speed highway trips and taking the MM out to the limit with conventional oil.
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Originally Posted By: Vikas
I still suspect that there is another factor here.
Something is not adding up.
Oh no not this again Vikas. Please this gets old fast.
There is no other factor and it does add up perfectly. You need to buy a new calculator man.
I still suspect that there is another factor here.
Something is not adding up.
Oh no not this again Vikas. Please this gets old fast.
There is no other factor and it does add up perfectly. You need to buy a new calculator man.
Originally Posted By: fauxchemist
Honda is not as reliable as people think.
+1
Sorry to hear that OP. The more I read up on these the more I feel the Honda engineers or bean counters screwed up big time with this engine. I sold Honda's for a few years, the biggest complaint at the time was their transmissions in the V6 Accords and the Odyssey mini van.
When you get it fixed follow Trav's suggestions if you decide on keeping the vehicle.
If the engine was programmed to alternate banks I be willing to bet they'd have less sludge problems.
Honda is not as reliable as people think.
+1
Sorry to hear that OP. The more I read up on these the more I feel the Honda engineers or bean counters screwed up big time with this engine. I sold Honda's for a few years, the biggest complaint at the time was their transmissions in the V6 Accords and the Odyssey mini van.
When you get it fixed follow Trav's suggestions if you decide on keeping the vehicle.
If the engine was programmed to alternate banks I be willing to bet they'd have less sludge problems.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
The previous sledged up Odyssey example had spent all of its life doing NON-highway duty running on synthetic oil. Here is this Pilot doing mostly highway on dino. Which explanation works for both these cases?
A poorly designed engine? Wrong oil viscosity?
OLM programmed wrong? Just thinking out loud. I'm sure Trav or someone who deals with them on a regular basis will have some other ideas.
The previous sledged up Odyssey example had spent all of its life doing NON-highway duty running on synthetic oil. Here is this Pilot doing mostly highway on dino. Which explanation works for both these cases?
A poorly designed engine? Wrong oil viscosity?
This engine has changed my opinion of Honda engines as well I have to say. That's not to say it's only the engine causing problems. From all the information I gathered, which is a lot, it appears to be a combination of factors: VCM, driving conditions and/or driving style, oil, OCI, and Honda MM. Ultimately the owner of the vehicle can prevent this problem with the proper actions. In my case I inherited an engine that was already past prevention. It's impossible to speculate how many more of these engines have internal issues. The examples on this site certainly warrant a more conservative approach to maintenance, and the current owners should have that information. This was my reason for making this post, not to spark a debate.
I have followed the Honda MM on my wife's prior cars without issue (Altima and CR-V). My car is a 2008 TSX and I use 5k OCI with PP. I always use the Honda OEM Filtech filters. I'll be following the same routine on the Pilot going forward.
I checked in with my service advisor today, and they had the engine back together for the inspector to listen to it. I thought that was odd. He was there for about 30 minutes, so maybe he did inspect internally as well. I've been so caught up with getting a solution in place, I still haven't had the discussion about the extent of the damage and what caused it. So right now we're waiting on the determination from the warranty inspector.
Also just want to say thanks to everyone for the concern, and the informarting and suggestions. I'll do my best to keep the post updated as I find out more abotu the old engine.
I have followed the Honda MM on my wife's prior cars without issue (Altima and CR-V). My car is a 2008 TSX and I use 5k OCI with PP. I always use the Honda OEM Filtech filters. I'll be following the same routine on the Pilot going forward.
I checked in with my service advisor today, and they had the engine back together for the inspector to listen to it. I thought that was odd. He was there for about 30 minutes, so maybe he did inspect internally as well. I've been so caught up with getting a solution in place, I still haven't had the discussion about the extent of the damage and what caused it. So right now we're waiting on the determination from the warranty inspector.
Also just want to say thanks to everyone for the concern, and the informarting and suggestions. I'll do my best to keep the post updated as I find out more abotu the old engine.
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The o/p bought a used vehicle with a warranty. If the damage occured within the covered period (180 days & 6K miles) then the warranty company (or the selling dealer) would have to repair/replace the engine, as per their agreement.
A totally "new" engine is a different kettle of fish (or "horse of a different color") from a repair/rebuilt engine. His engine was not new to begin with.
I don't really see where this is a Honda-specific problem at all: it is a used car warranty situation. There must be virtually hundreds of these situations daily in the used car market. What would be different if it were the transmission or any other warranted part or system? What if it were a BMW or a F150?
Good thing he had the warranty and the problem was discovered in time for the warranty to be in effect. I don't see where the o/p's exposure extends beyond any possible deductible that is specified in the warranty contract. It does not appear he did anything wrong or anything that contributed to the problem.
Obviously after the repairs are completed he'll want to use a different OCI than the Honda MM suggests, eh?
Cheers! & GOOD LUCK to the o/p!
A totally "new" engine is a different kettle of fish (or "horse of a different color") from a repair/rebuilt engine. His engine was not new to begin with.
I don't really see where this is a Honda-specific problem at all: it is a used car warranty situation. There must be virtually hundreds of these situations daily in the used car market. What would be different if it were the transmission or any other warranted part or system? What if it were a BMW or a F150?
Good thing he had the warranty and the problem was discovered in time for the warranty to be in effect. I don't see where the o/p's exposure extends beyond any possible deductible that is specified in the warranty contract. It does not appear he did anything wrong or anything that contributed to the problem.
Obviously after the repairs are completed he'll want to use a different OCI than the Honda MM suggests, eh?
Cheers! & GOOD LUCK to the o/p!
Also from my searching it seems there is a part number change on on one of the heads.
There is no question that VCM as implemented by Honda has issues. It should have alternated between different cylinder banks and/or cylinders. Even my microwave randomly changes direction of the plate rotation 
But that does not explain the lack of widespread failures of the VCM engines. Honda V6 have (or had) pattern failures on their transmission. A bad (inadequate) design ended up causing many transmissions to blow up. Come to think of it, as far as V6 transmissions of certain years are concerned, it has only two choices:- a) already broken b) will be broke soon! Seriously, bad inherent design and implementation ends up being a pattern failure.
By this time frame, odyclub would be littered with VCM engine failures. It is not.
But that does not explain the lack of widespread failures of the VCM engines. Honda V6 have (or had) pattern failures on their transmission. A bad (inadequate) design ended up causing many transmissions to blow up. Come to think of it, as far as V6 transmissions of certain years are concerned, it has only two choices:- a) already broken b) will be broke soon! Seriously, bad inherent design and implementation ends up being a pattern failure.
By this time frame, odyclub would be littered with VCM engine failures. It is not.
The 2011 models of the VCM engine have Moly impregnated skirts that was to have supposed to fix the sludge problem. I play it safe and do 5k OCI.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
a honda engine fails, and everyone laments about how honda's quality "just isnt what it used to be." get a life. really.
Yeah, it's pretty insane. Honda makes a lot of very reliable, abuse-tolerant engines. This particular engine doesn't seem to be one of them. When a spark plug shoot out of a Ford cylinder head, where is the blanket condemnation of entire line of vehicles? There's so much stupid posted on this thread that my head hurts.
To the OP, I really hope the insurance company comes though. It's ridiculous that you should have to deal with that on a well-maintained vehicle. Without question, this engine design has some issues which put some unique challenges on the lubricant. I agree with the plan to an oil which meets Honda's turbo spec, say Pennzoil Platinum 5W30. It's a thin 30 so it's not much over the recommended grade, and it obviously can withstand high temperatures. Ultra 5W30 with its low NOACK would be a good option as well, IMO.
a honda engine fails, and everyone laments about how honda's quality "just isnt what it used to be." get a life. really.
Yeah, it's pretty insane. Honda makes a lot of very reliable, abuse-tolerant engines. This particular engine doesn't seem to be one of them. When a spark plug shoot out of a Ford cylinder head, where is the blanket condemnation of entire line of vehicles? There's so much stupid posted on this thread that my head hurts.
To the OP, I really hope the insurance company comes though. It's ridiculous that you should have to deal with that on a well-maintained vehicle. Without question, this engine design has some issues which put some unique challenges on the lubricant. I agree with the plan to an oil which meets Honda's turbo spec, say Pennzoil Platinum 5W30. It's a thin 30 so it's not much over the recommended grade, and it obviously can withstand high temperatures. Ultra 5W30 with its low NOACK would be a good option as well, IMO.
Originally Posted By: asharris7
The 2011 models of the VCM engine have Moly impregnated skirts that was to have supposed to fix the sludge problem. I play it safe and do 5k OCI.
Care to enlighten me the correlation between Moly-impregnated skirts and sludge in Honda engine designs?
Q.
The 2011 models of the VCM engine have Moly impregnated skirts that was to have supposed to fix the sludge problem. I play it safe and do 5k OCI.
Care to enlighten me the correlation between Moly-impregnated skirts and sludge in Honda engine designs?
Q.
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
a honda engine fails, and everyone laments about how honda's quality "just isnt what it used to be." get a life. really.
Yeah, it's pretty insane. Honda makes a lot of very reliable, abuse-tolerant engines. This particular engine doesn't seem to be one of them. When a spark plug shoot out of a Ford cylinder head, where is the blanket condemnation of entire line of vehicles?
I think it is because you pay more for the Honda nameplate, so to speak. Hondas do cost more, and presumably you get more quality because you spend more $$$. So when there is an issue, it just glares. The PAX tires was and continue to be a debacle for Honda, and to lesser extent the trans and VCM issues, too.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
a honda engine fails, and everyone laments about how honda's quality "just isnt what it used to be." get a life. really.
Yeah, it's pretty insane. Honda makes a lot of very reliable, abuse-tolerant engines. This particular engine doesn't seem to be one of them. When a spark plug shoot out of a Ford cylinder head, where is the blanket condemnation of entire line of vehicles?
I think it is because you pay more for the Honda nameplate, so to speak. Hondas do cost more, and presumably you get more quality because you spend more $$$. So when there is an issue, it just glares. The PAX tires was and continue to be a debacle for Honda, and to lesser extent the trans and VCM issues, too.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Vikas
The previous sledged up Odyssey example had spent all of its life doing NON-highway duty running on synthetic oil. Here is this Pilot doing mostly highway on dino. Which explanation works for both these cases?
A poorly designed engine? Wrong oil viscosity?
OLM programmed wrong? Just thinking out loud. I'm sure Trav or someone who deals with them on a regular basis will have some other ideas.
Vikas doesn't want to believe and wont, forget it.
Reactions like this is why i don't post pics any more or write about my little projects, it just not worth the trouble.
I see and do lot of stuff everyday that i'm sure a lot of guys would be really interested in but its just not worth taking a beating over just to post an interesting thread.
No offence intended to anyone just its how i feel, been there done that got the T shirt.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
The previous sledged up Odyssey example had spent all of its life doing NON-highway duty running on synthetic oil. Here is this Pilot doing mostly highway on dino. Which explanation works for both these cases?
A poorly designed engine? Wrong oil viscosity?
Vikas doesn't want to believe and wont, forget it.
Reactions like this is why i don't post pics any more or write about my little projects, it just not worth the trouble.
I see and do lot of stuff everyday that i'm sure a lot of guys would be really interested in but its just not worth taking a beating over just to post an interesting thread.
No offence intended to anyone just its how i feel, been there done that got the T shirt.
Originally Posted By: Quest
Originally Posted By: asharris7
The 2011 models of the VCM engine have Moly impregnated skirts that was to have supposed to fix the sludge problem. I play it safe and do 5k OCI.
Care to enlighten me the correlation between Moly-impregnated skirts and sludge in Honda engine designs?
Q.
I didn't write it, that's what I read....
Originally Posted By: asharris7
The 2011 models of the VCM engine have Moly impregnated skirts that was to have supposed to fix the sludge problem. I play it safe and do 5k OCI.
Care to enlighten me the correlation between Moly-impregnated skirts and sludge in Honda engine designs?
Q.
I didn't write it, that's what I read....
For the sake of the OPr, can we please stay on topic; it is enough stress to deal with this issue without having to wade thru a bunch of people capitalizing on this to prove a point.
Thanks.
Thanks.
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