1993 Chec Pickup Amsoil 0w30 10297 Miles on oil

[03cvpi]

This is from a 1993 Chev 1/2 ton extended cab p/u. The oil is Amsoil 0w30 and has been run for 10,297 miles. The engine had a small coolant leak and used about 1 pint of Anit freeze in 8 months. I had both OAI and Blackstone run the UOA, plus I had blackstone do a particle count on the EAO filter - Vehicle also had the EAA air filter. 106395 on unit at UOA time.

-------------------Blakstone------------OAI-----Black/Avg
Aluminum-----------7--------------------15------3
Chromium-----------0--------------------1-------1
Iron---------------22-------------------26------15
Copper-------------6--------------------11------5
Lead---------------10-------------------18------8
Tin----------------0--------------------0-------1
Moly---------------19-------------------25------63
Nickel-------------0--------------------0-------0
Manganese----------0--------------------N/A-----1
Silver-------------0--------------------0-------0
Titanium-----------0--------------------0-------0
Potassium----------30-------------------0-------7
Boron--------------8--------------------14------38
Silicon------------33-------------------51------18
Sodium-------------27-------------------36------10
Calcium------------2816-----------------3175----1896
Magnesium----------15-------------------28------160
Phosphorus---------644------------------853-----734
Zinc---------------751------------------1008----887
Barium-------------1--------------------0-------1
SUS Visc 100c------68.0---------Cst100c-12.94
Flashpoint---------395F-----------------No
Fuel--------------- Antifreeze---------?--------------------No
Water--------------0.0------------------No
Insolubles---------0.3------------------No Data
TBN----------------2.1------------------2.73
Oxid---------------No-------------------16.0
Nitr---------------No-------------------25.0

OAI flagged Silicon & TBN as abnormal & said change
Blackstone flagged Alum,Iron,Potassium,Silicon and Sodium and said change oil. And reccommended a 7k interval.

Blackstone particle count ISO Code 17/16/14
>=2m-----2045
>=5m-----757
>=10m----209
>=15m----81
>=25m----19
>=50m----1
>=100m---0

Any thoughts!
Thanks

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

The coolant is one of the causes for the higher viscosity and depleted TBN. For a 10,000 mile interval, it's not that horrible, but it needs to be fixed immediately.

Once you fix the leak, get the cheapest oil you can find, and do two quick flushes before putting in another long drain oil. By quick flushes, I mean change it, drive around the neighborhood for about 30 minutes, come back and change it, and repeat a 2nd time.

 

[Donald]

Don't some GM engine (5.7L) have a history of coolant leaks in the intake manifold area?

I agree, fix the coolant leak ASAP.

 

[INDYMAC]

Why are there such large discrepancies in the findings between labs. You could make these numbers say anything you want, and not even be close to the truth. Is there no standardization in the oil analysis process or this industry? Is there no professional accountability in how a laboratory handles an oil analysis request and to what limitations you can expect from them with their equipment and skill level? It's either incompetence or fraud IMO. I seriously doubt whether I will ever do another UOA.

 

[03cvpi]

Thanks for the replies. The post timed out on me while typing in the UOA and I forgot to include the engine 4.3L and that there where two quarts of make up oil, 1 at 6k and 1 at 9k. The 9k make up oil was valvoline 5w30, I was out of 0w30.

As for doing two samples, after reading on this board about problems with both blackstone and oai, I thought i would try both.. I can live with the discrepancies between labs, normally I choose 1 lab and use it exclusivly for trend analisys. Over the last 25 years, I have done more than 700 UOAs on industrial equipment at our plant. Using trend analisys we have been able to fix many small problems before they become big problems.

The coolant leak was fixed at about 9k in the oci, but is a moot point now. I replaced the engine with a rebuilt unit a month ago.

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

Not every lab will be the same. Machine calibration and testing methods can be the main reasons. Also, equal ppm distribution may not be entirely possible in all applications. I'm certain there are other reasons, but I am not an expert in that field, though I'm sure someone on here could verify how all of that works.

 

[Pablo]

Quote:

---

Why are there such large discrepancies in the findings between labs. You could make these numbers say anything you want, and not even be close to the truth. Is there no standardization in the oil analysis process or this industry? Is there no professional accountability in how a laboratory handles an oil analysis request and to what limitations you can expect from them with their equipment and skill level? It's either incompetence or fraud IMO. I seriously doubt whether I will ever do another UOA.

---

I will admit those are some fairly large variances.

Check this out from 5 years back or so:

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/labtest.html

I didn't see such a huge variance in wear metals back then, that's for sure. IMHO, Blackstone has been low in the metals and additives for a year or so. The fact that they are lower across the board says to me that something remains goofy with Blackstone. I am NOT the first to say this.

Hey, at least the TBN and viscosity are closer than usual!

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/margins.html

 

[buster]

It's about what I saw with B/S Labs and Analysts Inc.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

You have the infamous GM intake leak. If you cannot afford to fix it, switch to 4K dino or blend oil. If/when the leak gets more noticeable on the dipstick or showing discoloration in the oil drain bucket, buy $1.60 Supertech or Trop Artic and change every 2K if necessary.

 

[INDYMAC]

Sorry about the earlier rant guys. I have not invested near the amount of money on UOA's as 03cvpi, so I guess I should follow his lead and just use it as data (good or bad) and move on. It just amazes me how two supposedly reputable labs can come up with 25-50% different numbers in most cases. And how do both labs look for K and one comes up 0ppm while the other finds 30ppm?
I'm retracting my earlier decision about not doing anymore UOA's. Instead, I'll send a sample to 4 or 5 labs and we'll see what happens. I do smell a rat (or 2)! We'll see if this flushes them out!

 

[INDYMAC]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Why are there such large discrepancies in the findings between labs. You could make these numbers say anything you want, and not even be close to the truth. Is there no standardization in the oil analysis process or this industry? Is there no professional accountability in how a laboratory handles an oil analysis request and to what limitations you can expect from them with their equipment and skill level? It's either incompetence or fraud IMO. I seriously doubt whether I will ever do another UOA.

---

I will admit those are some fairly large variances.

Check this out from 5 years back or so:

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/labtest.html

I didn't see such a huge variance in wear metals back then, that's for sure. IMHO, Blackstone has been low in the metals and additives for a year or so. The fact that they are lower across the board says to me that something remains goofy with Blackstone. I am NOT the first to say this.

Hey, at least the TBN and viscosity are closer than usual!

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/margins.html

---

Thanks for the history links Pablo. This is frustrating. I have no idea how someone like Terry Dyson makes heads or tails from this kind of data.

 

[Cutehumor]

they probably just make up numbers and send it back to ya. but seriously, I use them as a general guideline/trend not the bible.

 

[TeeDub]

The slow coolant leak is causing accelerated wear, particularly bearing wear, ie Pb and Cu. It's also depleting the additive package in the oil more quickly.

I'd recommend using a 15w-40 HDEO in warm weather and changing it every 3000 miles until you can get this leak fixed. The Amsoil 0w-30 held up very well here, considering the contamination, but long OCI's are risky in this type of situation.

Blackstone labs is always low on wear metals and additive concentrations. It's simply the calibration setup they have on their mass spectrometer.

TS

 

[03cvpi]

The only troubling difference i had with the two reports was the Potassium levels, but both reports indicated to me that the vehicle had a coolant contamination. And in the real world it was so slight that there was no discoloration of the oil or slime on the oil fill cap or dipstick. Nor was there any residue in the pan when I drained the oil. Just for giggles I had the virgin oil tested by two different labs to get the base line for 0w30. I don't have the link but it's in the VOA section under Amsoil 0w30 from 2/06 and there where some differences in those reports also. At work we use five different labs for the different kinds of fluids we test. We found that some labs seem to have a bent towards a certain type of oil or fluid and send them that fluid. This was my third uoa from blackstone and I was satisfied with the results. I will probably split every other oil change between oai and blackstone and keep the trend data coming. I kind of favor blackstone for particle counts and the reports are 'infused with love'

 

[Pablo]

I do like the particle counts of Blackstone. But frankly their inaccuracies drive me bonkers. People used to say OAI was biased - I put that to bed a LONG time back.

 

[unDummy]

This just adds to the 'stick with 1 lab' and 'trend' your UOAs. This also makes it more difficult to compare to other UOAs. There are just too many variables.

Fix the leak now. Or, start a frequent cheap oil 3k OCI, with a coolant flush using a heavy dose of stop leak products.

But, the numbers look great for an oil with 10k miles and a coolant leak!

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Buy yourself some cheaper Formula Shell/Trop Artic & Supertech filters -- change every 3K. Also change to regular green coolant & avoid the red, extended service stuff.

 

[Drew99GT]

Did you miss the part about the truck now sporting a new engine?

 

[Steelhead]

106k miles on engine at time of replacement
what was the reason for replacement? coolant leak?
what was oil, drive useage type and maint. history on the engine?

 

[03cvpi]

The engine sprung a head gasket leak into cylinder #3. It wasn't a big leak, about a pint to a pint and a half over 8 months, but the engine developed a slight miss in all ranges. After doing a compression and leak down test (all pointing to a problem with #3)I decided to pull the pan. The coolant damage to cyl 3 was pretty plain. The exposed cyl wall had a white color to the metal and did not feel smooth. All other cyls looked normal, cross hatching still visible. I balanced the 600 in parts and 300 in labor and two weeks time on rebuilding the engine. I don't have the equipment avail to do head work. Versus a crate engine at 1185 delivered and 7 hours of my time to install. The 4.3L engine in a full size chev 4wd p/u gets worked hard and the crate engine has a 3 year million mile warrenty, like I could drive nearly 920 miles a day. For 300 extra and 10-15 hours less labor I'll take a crate engine. As for oil Valvoline AC for most of it's life, was on it's second amsoil fill with 12k intervals (1st one checked by UOA and apart from a little thickening might have went 15k). All routine maint done from almost day one, had like 30 miles on it when purchased. And I beat the carp out of it. I think what finally caused the coolant leak was the stress of hauling 15 loads of class five ag to finish my driveway. I do have to give the loader operator credit though, 15 loads and in all the trips I got between 2085 and 2205 lbs of ag. He was good.