1.8T VW oil weight

Tyrolkid · Jul 21, 2003

Look for the Redline 5w-40 UOA on my drag/road race 1.8T in the UOA forum. I've sampled a few times with excellent results. I'm running a ko4 at 26psi, 215whp. I also run Redline 5w-40 in 2 t3/t04e 1.8ts producing 300whp. All results have been stellar so far.

-Mike P

harrydog · Jul 21, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by msparks:
Definately stay away from a 10w40 or higher.

quote:

Red Line 10W30: Best all-weather viscosity grade for gasoline engines in cars and light trucks that are driven on the street on a daily basis. Reduces turbo lag and provides more power and economy while providing thicker bearing oil films at operating temperature than a petroleum 10W-40. Best all-round, synthetic oil for stock or slightly modified engines in high- performance cars that are street-driven. Best choice to replace a 5W-30 or 10W-30, petroleum-based or other-brand synthetic oil if maximum durability is preferred. Acceptable for engines that are occasionally operated in extreme cold weather.

Click to expand...

quote:

Race-proven technology designed for passenger car performance. Provides unsurpassed fuel efficiency and up to twice the wear protection provided by popular conventional and synthetic motor oils. Recommended for use in all vehicles requiring 5W-20, 5W-30 or 10W-30 motor oils.

Click to expand...

But this is a highly modified, high performance engine that is often track-driven, driven hard on the street and operated in a warm climate.
I think Redline 10w40 is a excellent choice for this application.
Per Redline's site:

Red Line 10W40: Best choice for engines that typically run high oil temperature. Best choice for engines in daily drivers operated in very hot weather on a regular basis. Best choice for medium and heavy duty gasoline engines in trucks. Best choice for high-performance engines that see street as well as frequent racetrack duty. Thicker oil film at operating temperature than a petro-based 20W-50.

tom in boise · Jul 21, 2003

Okay, I'll give you an anecdotal story. I just changed the oil in my '99 VW Passat (1.8T w/ 5spd, but no chip, etc.) I was running M1 10W-30, and changed to M1 0w-40. I wouldn't have believed it, but I can tell the difference in how fast the engine revs up, between the two. My passat, in 1st gear, will wind to 5000 rpm pretty quickly. I can tell that it's a tick slower now. Is it the 40W vs 30W oil? I don't know, but I think it's related. I'm not changing back, as I think the turbo could use the extra protection of the heavier oil in hot weather, but if you are going to the strip, and want to maximize your output, you might want to run the thinner stuff.

Use at your own risk, and take it fwiw.

Tom

msparks · Jul 21, 2003

So I'm guess the question at hand is what are your oil temperatures??

If you really want to get the proper viscosity, find what your average oil temps are and choose a viscosity accordingly.

Though I'm still going to stick with the lighter oil unless you can show me differently.

As far as being hard on the oil, Running 1/4 mile doesn't really heat up the oil that much. Plus when you are done, you slow down and the engine/oil cools.

Now if you were travelling say 500 miles with the engine at the rev limiter, then I'd take a look at a heavier oil. But I don't think this guy would have his licesnce very long if he really drove hard on the street.

Can you say driving 120-130 for an hour like on the Autobahn?? Just can't do it in the USA. Believe me I've tried

[ July 22, 2003, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: msparks ]

msparks · Jul 21, 2003

Does this back me up??

http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng14.shtml

quote:

"High-speed, long distance driving," by European standards, likely means several tens of miles at speeds above 100 mph. The power required to overcome atmospheric drag at 130 mph (most Audi's governed top-speed) is more than twice that required at 100 mph. The result of this is that at any average speed of less than 100 mph, your engine is under only half the load and is probably producing less than half the heat that Audi felt necessitated a 5W-40 oil. Driving at 75 mph in an Audi requires only about 25 hp, and does not heavily load the engine. Your engine is likely more than well protected with an API SJ 5W-30 if you drive mainly on public roads, and do not average speeds greater than 100 mph over distances greater than a few tens of miles. Short sprints up to 130, if you are fortunate enough to live where that is possible, should not cause a problem. Only sustained high-speeds heat the oil enough to significantly reduce viscosity. Many people have reported that even at local track events their oil temperature has not increased dramatically.

I'll Stick with Series 2000 0w30 with a HT/HS Vis of 3.5 or 10w30 ATM with a HT/HS Vis of >3.5

sprintman · Jul 22, 2003

Amsoil TSO or their 10W40, Redline 5W40, M1 0W40 or Motul 8100 X-cess 5w40 or even Delvac 1 5W40. I'm moving to BP Visco 5000 5W40 in my turbo but not aailable everywhere it appears.

moribundman · Jul 22, 2003

quote:

Many people have reported that even at local track events their oil temperature has not increased dramatically.

Hmm, some of Audi owners I've talked to have said their oil temperature reaches 235-250 degree F if they push the car hard (usually on the track). Maybe that's a case in which an oil like M1 15W-50 with and HT/HS of 5.11 would make sense?

harrydog · Jul 22, 2003

I used to own a '94 Audi S4 which I sometimes ran at the track (road course not drag). The oil temps would approach 250 at times. I also would see the oil temps rise dramatically when driving up long, steep mountain raods.
I think driving hard on the street here in the USA usually means lots of high rpm, full throttle acceleration, hard braking, etc. This can get the oil up to high temps quickly. High speed driving, as on the autobahn is a totally different situation and as stated, is not really all that hard on a well designed engine if the rpm's are within reason. Cooling is at it's most efficient in those situations. Not the case with the type of hard driving that I'm talking about.

msparks · Jul 22, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:
Hmm, some of Audi owners I've talked to have said their oil temperature reaches 235-250 degree F if they push the car hard (usually on the track). Maybe that's a case in which an oil like M1 15W-50 with and HT/HS of 5.11 would make sense?

The question would be how long and how often does the engine see oil temps that high?? If it's just for a few minutes should be no problem for a good synthetic to handle that. Most Auto Cross is run for what 5 minutes?? Then you stop. Most hard street driving is-- go really fast then slow down as to not get a ticket.

moribundman · Jul 23, 2003

quote:

I think driving hard on the street here in the USA usually means lots of high rpm, full throttle acceleration, hard braking, etc. This can get the oil up to high temps quickly. High speed driving, as on the autobahn is a totally different situation and as stated, is not really all that hard on a well designed engine if the rpm's are within reason. Cooling is at it's most efficient in those situations. Not the case with the type of hard driving that I'm talking about.

I can't second that. High speed driving will get the oil temperature up very quickly - not only because the engine will run at high RPM, but also because the air resistence at these speeds is enormous.
I've experienced many times that a car that I drove on the Autobahn at high speed (Let's say 200km/h, would reach a very high oil temperature of way over 250 F, and when slowing down and getting off the Autobahn the oil temps would shoot up even higher for a minutes or so. That was the point when I did on occasion lose sufficient oil pressure, which was ultimatly remedied by using a thicker oil.
I've never reached an oil temp of more than 250 F anywhere/with any kind of driving in the US.

quote:

The question would be how long and how often does the engine see oil temps that high??

Well, if I drive Highway 1 and some of the twisties up the coastal range in the summer months, and if I drive in a sporty manner, doing a lot of down-and-up shifting, I can easily get my oil temp up to 235 F for half an hour or so. And that doesn't mean I drive like a madman...

harrydog · Jul 24, 2003

I used to get my turbo glowing red hot sometimes. That's where anything but a good ester based oil is probably going to coke up and leave hard deposits in the turbo. I wonder if this would show up in a UOA?

Yuk · Jul 26, 2003

I'm really sorry if the following question has been answered once and for all. I must be soft in the head, since I can't seem to straighten it out.

Geo said,

[QUOTE I know this pertains to the 2.8 12V engine. I don't know if the 1.8T specically is affected by low-tension rings or loose cold tolerances. Since this is a 503.00 spec WIV (extended drain) engine, I'm guessing it may not be. ] [/QUOTE]

When I read into this statement I come to the conclusion that my 1999, 150hp, 1.8T requires a 503.00 (or 503.01) spec. oil.

Moribundman responds to Geo saying,

[QUOTE Interesting, Audi/VW must have updated the 1.8T motor. The earlier 1.8T had the same oil requirements like the 2.8 12v engine: VW 500.00, VW 501.01, API-SF/SG
I guess, Audi changed the engines in May '99. ] [/QUOTE]

Has it been concluded that the 1998/99 1.8T engine requires VW 500.00/501.01 oil, or is it in need of VW 503.01. To make things more muddy has VW 503.01 replaced VW 500.00, VW 501.01 and VW 503.00 to become the one-does-all motor oil?

Can this question be answered definitively, or is this a philosophical discussion?

moribundman · Jul 26, 2003

If your manual doesn't state what VW spec oil is recommended (Mine says it under "Consumer Info"), then I don't know how you can really find out what spec oil would be best for you. I guess, you'll have to go by what they tell you to use...

quote:

To make things more muddy has VW 503.01 replaced VW 500.00, VW 501.01 and VW 503.00 to become the one-does-all motor oil?

- VW500.00 has been replaced by VW502.00, but VW500.00 spec is still available; VW502.00 has a higher HT/HS than VW500.00

- VW501.00 has been replaced by VW501.01, which still exists. If either oil (dino/blend) is used, it MUST also meet VW506.00 (which is for diesel engines)

- VW503.00 has NOT replaced any other spec: it's a low HT/HS oil

- VW503.01 is similar to VW502.00, but suitable for extended drain (Longlife Service, n/a in US). Some VW503.01 oils also meet VW502.00

[ July 26, 2003, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]

TooSlick · Jul 26, 2003

I'm not sure why you are trying to make this so complicated? Use a VW 502/505 oil in any VW built in the last 10 years and you'll be fine. Choose the viscosity based on the oil pressure you are seeing under high temp conditions. You want to have about 20-25 psi/1000 rpms w/ a VW/Audi engine to get optimum wear results.

TooSlick

moribundman · Jul 26, 2003

I fail to see where I'm making his complicated. The manual should say what VW spec is required. My manual does say it. If other people's manuals don't say it, then that's too bad. That said, I'm also sure that an oil that meets VW502.00 will be best for a '98/99 1.8T.

[ July 26, 2003, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]

Yuk · Jul 26, 2003

Hey guys,

I don't think moribundman is making things complicated. I think VW has made things complicated by having such a hodge-podge of similar sounding, difficult to understand specs.

Here's what's causing my trouble:

1. Very few oils in N.A. (three brands in Edmonton) list VW specs. The three are;

a) Mobil 1 0w40, only available at MB & VW dealers and Mobil 1 15w50, available at lots of places.
b) Castrol 0w30, available at Wal-Mart.
c) A variety of Amsoil products (not really approved, they just claim to meet the specs).

2. TooSlick says, "Use a VW 502/505 oil in any VW built in the last 10 years and you'll be fine." That would be fine if any were more brands available here. Mobil 1 15w50 ( what I am currently using) is rated VW 505.00, but most people on this site balk when I tell them I live north of the 49th parallel and use a 15w50. Castrol 0w30 is VW 503.01, but may not satisfy TooSlick because it isn't 502/505. Mobil 1 0w40 is VW 502/505 and 503.01 approved, but again very hard to find. Amsoil... well even though it doesn't have a VW approval, I'm sure it's great stuff. My biggest Amsoil objection is my third point.

3. Price.... where two of the four options collapse. The Canadian prices for Mobil 1 0w40 is over $10.00/l, Amsoil is $8-12/quart, Mobil 1 15w50 is $7.14/l and Castrol 0w30 (German), AKA "the Oil of the Beast", is $6.66/l.

So providing VW intended 503.01 for my 1.8T the castrol seems to be the best bet for me. I don't have my owners manual, so that doesn't help. The VW dealers use Syntec 5w50 and just go "Huh!!!?", when I ask about VW oil specs. My car doesn't have an oil pressure gauge, so I can't take advantage of TooSlick's good advice.

It is for these reasons why I would like to know if VW 503.01 is intended for my engine.

TexasTDI · Jul 26, 2003

The VW motor is no more special than any other motor. Just use a quality oil with a viscosity that fits your climate and you'll be fine.

And if all else fails, just use whatever crap oil the dealership uses.

FowVay · Jul 26, 2003

I don't know if this helps or not but here's a bit of information from VW:

If you have a older 1.8T that was built prior to model year 2000 then it specifies VW 502 spec oil.

If you have a 2000 model or newer 1.8T with either the 150 HP or 180 HP engine used in North America then it specifies VW 503.01 oil.

If the oil doesn't publish that it meets your required specs then I would not use it.

Chris Jefferson · Jul 26, 2003

no, i think that 503.01 is intended for the new roller type lifters (I THINK) and has an HTHS from 2.5 or 2.9cst-3.2cst whereas, the 'old' 502 00 spec was a cst of AT LEAST 3.5 or 3.6cst. anyways, i too have a 1.8T and have good luck w/ the german syntec 0w-30 and almost NO consumption and this is with 85-93 degree days here in atlanta and driving it like it was meant to be driven-hard. cant wait to see how it does after 6K miles! next though is Lubro-Moly 0w-40!

Doug Hillary · Jul 26, 2003

Hi,
why not use Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40?

I would without hesitation

Regards

1.8T VW oil weight

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