Thanks for the data but it's from a master's thesis that also lists KV100 for the 10W-30 as 7.2 cSt.
0W40 Can Ruin A 5W20/5W30 Oil Spec'd Engine?
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OK, Feel free to provide something that you do trust...rather than anecdotes...
https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/982502/
Quote:
Engine Oil Effects on Fuel Economy in GM Vehicles -- Separation of Viscosity and Friction Modifier Effects 982502
Eight engine oils were evaluated in four GM vehicles in standard EPA fuel economy (FE), vehicle-dynamometer tests. The results were compared with the FE obtained with a standard ASTM reference oil (BC). The viscosity and the friction modification effects of engine oil on vehicle FE were quantified.Combined FE performance in the vehicles ranged from almost 2 percent improvement for an SAE 0W-10 oil, to over 1.5 percent poorer FE than the reference oil for an SAE 10W-40 oil. FE in three engines (3.1L, 3.8L, and 2.3L) showed a strong dependence on the viscosity of the oil (HTHS at either 100° or 150°C). This dependence was stronger during the city portion of the EPA test (lower temperatures) than the highway portion (higher temperatures). For the 5.7L engine no significant effect of oil viscosity on FE was observed although the highest FE seemed to be obtained at an HTHS (at 150°C) viscosity near 3.1 cP.All four engines responded strongly to both of the friction modifiers used in this study (an organic and a Mo-type). The average (over all engines) combined FE improved by 1.6% with the Mo friction modifier and by 1.5% with the organic friction modifier. The effect of both friction modifiers was higher for the highway portion of the test than for the city driving schedule.
I know...too old
https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/982502/
Quote:
Engine Oil Effects on Fuel Economy in GM Vehicles -- Separation of Viscosity and Friction Modifier Effects 982502
Eight engine oils were evaluated in four GM vehicles in standard EPA fuel economy (FE), vehicle-dynamometer tests. The results were compared with the FE obtained with a standard ASTM reference oil (BC). The viscosity and the friction modification effects of engine oil on vehicle FE were quantified.Combined FE performance in the vehicles ranged from almost 2 percent improvement for an SAE 0W-10 oil, to over 1.5 percent poorer FE than the reference oil for an SAE 10W-40 oil. FE in three engines (3.1L, 3.8L, and 2.3L) showed a strong dependence on the viscosity of the oil (HTHS at either 100° or 150°C). This dependence was stronger during the city portion of the EPA test (lower temperatures) than the highway portion (higher temperatures). For the 5.7L engine no significant effect of oil viscosity on FE was observed although the highest FE seemed to be obtained at an HTHS (at 150°C) viscosity near 3.1 cP.All four engines responded strongly to both of the friction modifiers used in this study (an organic and a Mo-type). The average (over all engines) combined FE improved by 1.6% with the Mo friction modifier and by 1.5% with the organic friction modifier. The effect of both friction modifiers was higher for the highway portion of the test than for the city driving schedule.
I know...too old
Trucking-industry tests are showing 1 - 2% improvement in fuel economy when you go from 15W-40 to the FA-4 oils, which are like the HTHSV 3.0 cP xW-30 for cars.
https://rmi.org/about/news-and-press/pre...-haul-trucking/
You should expect about twice the gain (2 - 4%) in typical passenger-vehicle applications, as the engine output is much less than the maximum horsepower, and the oil film is much thicker as a result. Slower you drive more gain you will see. I think up to about 6 - 8% gain is possible for gentle cruising.
You should perhaps put thinner oil in that gas turbine of yours.
https://rmi.org/about/news-and-press/pre...-haul-trucking/
You should expect about twice the gain (2 - 4%) in typical passenger-vehicle applications, as the engine output is much less than the maximum horsepower, and the oil film is much thicker as a result. Slower you drive more gain you will see. I think up to about 6 - 8% gain is possible for gentle cruising.
You should perhaps put thinner oil in that gas turbine of yours.
I give up.
You win.
I apologize to all the BITOG members for my misquoting about the OW.
I am not a chemical engineer.
Just a man that does some routine maintenance on my autos.
Tune ups, oil n coolant change. Minor engine work.
In the past I have used 10W-30, 5W-30 a few times 5W-20.
So my thinking is a little old school.
Oh and when you listed all of the W in C.
I don’t do C for temperatures.
I give up
You win.
I apologize to all the BITOG members for my misquoting about the OW.
I am not a chemical engineer.
Just a man that does some routine maintenance on my autos.
Tune ups, oil n coolant change. Minor engine work.
In the past I have used 10W-30, 5W-30 a few times 5W-20.
So my thinking is a little old school.
Oh and when you listed all of the W in C.
I don’t do C for temperatures.
I give up
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: fordman65
I give up.
You win.
I apologize to all the BITOG members for my misquoting about the OW.
I am not a chemical engineer.
Just a man that does some routine maintenance on my autos.
Tune ups, oil n coolant change. Minor engine work.
In the past I have used 10W-30, 5W-30 a few times 5W-20.
So my thinking is a little old school.
Oh and when you listed all of the W in C.
I don’t do C for temperatures.
I give up
I wasn't trying to brow-beat you, just educate/explain so that you understood. Knowledge is always good, and there's nothing wrong with learning something new, or knowing a subject better, regardless of age, occupation...etc.
You don't need to be a chemical engineer to understand the grading system
And as Shannow noted, the SAE uses C instead of F, which is why I converted it.
I give up.
You win.
I apologize to all the BITOG members for my misquoting about the OW.
I am not a chemical engineer.
Just a man that does some routine maintenance on my autos.
Tune ups, oil n coolant change. Minor engine work.
In the past I have used 10W-30, 5W-30 a few times 5W-20.
So my thinking is a little old school.
Oh and when you listed all of the W in C.
I don’t do C for temperatures.
I give up
I wasn't trying to brow-beat you, just educate/explain so that you understood. Knowledge is always good, and there's nothing wrong with learning something new, or knowing a subject better, regardless of age, occupation...etc.
You don't need to be a chemical engineer to understand the grading system
1.8(C) + 32 = F
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I use 0w40 in my 2L turbo but I think I'm going back to a 0w30 as the oil doesn't get hot enough. 205F at the most when it's in the 50Fs or so and 2 hours of highway driving.
There's nothing wrong with that kind of oil temperature at all, IMO. How hot do you want it to be running? If I take a long highway trip in my Corvette when temps are in the 50s, the oil temp stays rock solid at 90C (192F) the entire time. I'm 100% comfortable with that. Oil doesn't need to reach 212F in order to remove moisture if that's what you're concerned about.
I use 0w40 in my 2L turbo but I think I'm going back to a 0w30 as the oil doesn't get hot enough. 205F at the most when it's in the 50Fs or so and 2 hours of highway driving.
There's nothing wrong with that kind of oil temperature at all, IMO. How hot do you want it to be running? If I take a long highway trip in my Corvette when temps are in the 50s, the oil temp stays rock solid at 90C (192F) the entire time. I'm 100% comfortable with that. Oil doesn't need to reach 212F in order to remove moisture if that's what you're concerned about.
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I use 0w40 in my 2L turbo but I think I'm going back to a 0w30 as the oil doesn't get hot enough. 205F at the most when it's in the 50Fs or so and 2 hours of highway driving.
There's nothing wrong with that kind of oil temperature at all, IMO. How hot do you want it to be running? If I take a long highway trip in my Corvette when temps are in the 50s, the oil temp stays rock solid at 90C (192F) the entire time. I'm 100% comfortable with that. Oil doesn't need to reach 212F in order to remove moisture if that's what you're concerned about.
I did put a new t-stat in late last summer. I don't drive in the winter. So the 205F I was seeing Saturday was a bit of a surprise as it seldom would get to 200F even in the summer with the AC on. The coolant is running 5F-7F hotter now at around 185-187F.
The 0w40 is in until at least mid summer so I'll see.
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I use 0w40 in my 2L turbo but I think I'm going back to a 0w30 as the oil doesn't get hot enough. 205F at the most when it's in the 50Fs or so and 2 hours of highway driving.
There's nothing wrong with that kind of oil temperature at all, IMO. How hot do you want it to be running? If I take a long highway trip in my Corvette when temps are in the 50s, the oil temp stays rock solid at 90C (192F) the entire time. I'm 100% comfortable with that. Oil doesn't need to reach 212F in order to remove moisture if that's what you're concerned about.
I did put a new t-stat in late last summer. I don't drive in the winter. So the 205F I was seeing Saturday was a bit of a surprise as it seldom would get to 200F even in the summer with the AC on. The coolant is running 5F-7F hotter now at around 185-187F.
The 0w40 is in until at least mid summer so I'll see.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Steam turbine...OEM specs ISO32 and ISO 46...runs ISO 32.
Isn't that the equivalent of SAE 0W-8? It's nine viscosity grades thinner than the standard-Aussie-issue SAE 30-70 you run in your cars. It must be giving you nightmares.
Steam turbine...OEM specs ISO32 and ISO 46...runs ISO 32.
Isn't that the equivalent of SAE 0W-8? It's nine viscosity grades thinner than the standard-Aussie-issue SAE 30-70 you run in your cars. It must be giving you nightmares.
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I wonder what would happen if you did the opposite,ran a 0W20 in an engine that's spec'd 10W30-20W50? Spun bearing maybe?
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I wonder what would happen if you did the opposite,ran a 0W20 in an engine that's spec'd 10W30-20W50? Spun bearing maybe?
Probably nothing if the vehicle was used in normal and unstressed driving conditions, just the cars 0W20 are specified for.
I wonder what would happen if you did the opposite,ran a 0W20 in an engine that's spec'd 10W30-20W50? Spun bearing maybe?
Probably nothing if the vehicle was used in normal and unstressed driving conditions, just the cars 0W20 are specified for.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I wonder what would happen if you did the opposite,ran a 0W20 in an engine that's spec'd 10W30-20W50? Spun bearing maybe?
Back when cars specified 10W-30 - 20W-50, like mine, 10W-30 probably sheared to 10W-20. So, basically, with today's modern oils, you're still within the spec with 0W-20. This said, I run 0W-20 with good UOAs. Besides, there are versions of my engine with twice the power that still specified 10W-30. That means, I could probably run 0W-8 with no problems, not that I would.
However, if you have bad valve-stem oil seals, thinner oil is a disaster in terms of oil consumption. So, the limiting factor here is not really wear but oil consumption.
I wonder what would happen if you did the opposite,ran a 0W20 in an engine that's spec'd 10W30-20W50? Spun bearing maybe?
Back when cars specified 10W-30 - 20W-50, like mine, 10W-30 probably sheared to 10W-20. So, basically, with today's modern oils, you're still within the spec with 0W-20. This said, I run 0W-20 with good UOAs. Besides, there are versions of my engine with twice the power that still specified 10W-30. That means, I could probably run 0W-8 with no problems, not that I would.
However, if you have bad valve-stem oil seals, thinner oil is a disaster in terms of oil consumption. So, the limiting factor here is not really wear but oil consumption.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I wonder what would happen if you did the opposite,ran a 0W20 in an engine that's spec'd 10W30-20W50? Spun bearing maybe?
Probably nothing if the vehicle was used in normal and unstressed driving conditions, just the cars 0W20 are specified for.
I'm thinking along the same lines as Z06 is here.
Also, my thinking is that the 0W20 will suffice, even in an abused engine, until you can get what is spec'd. I look at it like it's a "LIMP MODE."
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I wonder what would happen if you did the opposite,ran a 0W20 in an engine that's spec'd 10W30-20W50? Spun bearing maybe?
Probably nothing if the vehicle was used in normal and unstressed driving conditions, just the cars 0W20 are specified for.
I'm thinking along the same lines as Z06 is here.
Also, my thinking is that the 0W20 will suffice, even in an abused engine, until you can get what is spec'd. I look at it like it's a "LIMP MODE."
Look at the nanny systems that the OEMs put in when their 20s get too hot (e.g. ford Toyota/Subaru)...they cut power and cut available revs when the platform outperforms their chosen oil (and in other parts of the market put in 50 or 60 grade for that specific usage)...
Drive like the nanny systems will allow, and probably never have an issue.
(Ford Oz used the Nanny systems to allow you to drive home with a failed cooling system, on the specced 15w40 in the falcon)
Drive like the nanny systems will allow, and probably never have an issue.
(Ford Oz used the Nanny systems to allow you to drive home with a failed cooling system, on the specced 15w40 in the falcon)
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Anecdote alert
Sonata's first run on 5W-40...
I'm notoriously sensory deprived when it comes to oil viscosity feel and sounds. Until i used 5w20 RP which was slightly smoother for the first 600 miles, and now, significantly smoother and quieter with the w40. How long will this last? Who knows. I have zero issue going up and down from 20,30 and 40 / 0w, 5w or 10w until i read data showing this is detrimental.
Sonata's first run on 5W-40...
I'm notoriously sensory deprived when it comes to oil viscosity feel and sounds. Until i used 5w20 RP which was slightly smoother for the first 600 miles, and now, significantly smoother and quieter with the w40. How long will this last? Who knows. I have zero issue going up and down from 20,30 and 40 / 0w, 5w or 10w until i read data showing this is detrimental.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Look at the nanny systems that the OEMs put in when their 20s get too hot (e.g. ford Toyota/Subaru)...they cut power and cut available revs when the platform outperforms their chosen oil (and in other parts of the market put in 50 or 60 grade for that specific usage)...
Drive like the nanny systems will allow, and probably never have an issue.
(Ford Oz used the Nanny systems to allow you to drive home with a failed cooling system, on the specced 15w40 in the falcon)
I agree. Pay for the HP and have it cut because the mfg wants to run a 20 grade oil to get CAFE credits. It's laughable. I want all the power I'm paying for, not something castrated for CAFE credits.
Look at the nanny systems that the OEMs put in when their 20s get too hot (e.g. ford Toyota/Subaru)...they cut power and cut available revs when the platform outperforms their chosen oil (and in other parts of the market put in 50 or 60 grade for that specific usage)...
Drive like the nanny systems will allow, and probably never have an issue.
(Ford Oz used the Nanny systems to allow you to drive home with a failed cooling system, on the specced 15w40 in the falcon)
I agree. Pay for the HP and have it cut because the mfg wants to run a 20 grade oil to get CAFE credits. It's laughable. I want all the power I'm paying for, not something castrated for CAFE credits.
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