0W40 Can Ruin A 5W20/5W30 Oil Spec'd Engine?
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OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: fordman65
You have the thin 0W with the protection of 40.
I would rephrase that to read "you have the extreme cold temperature performance as indicated by the 0W designation and the higher temp protection offered by the increased viscosity of the 40 weight." As all oils get thicker as they cool, so there's nothing "thin" about the 0W Winter classification when it is applied to a Euro 0w-30 or 0w-40.
You have the thin 0W with the protection of 40.
I would rephrase that to read "you have the extreme cold temperature performance as indicated by the 0W designation and the higher temp protection offered by the increased viscosity of the 40 weight." As all oils get thicker as they cool, so there's nothing "thin" about the 0W Winter classification when it is applied to a Euro 0w-30 or 0w-40.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
The engine in my 07 F150 is spec'd 5W20. In 1997, its 1st year in production, it was spec'd 5W30. In 2000 Ford spec'd 5W20, and back spec'd 5W20. I have used whatever weight oil I wanted to and it is still running with over 150K miles.
I have been doing a lot of reading about 0W40 in engines such as mine. There are mixed opinions about it and how it can ruin my engine. Some are even stating that using a 0W40 in a 0W20 spec'd engine will ruin it as well. Some are positive responses. Such as, use it over any other oil. It will protect your engine, esp. at start up and operating temperature.
What gives? I have had PP EURO 0W40 in my engine for almost a month, maybe more, and it has NEVER run as quiet as it does now. Am I reading opinions from "ARMCHAIR QUARTERBACKS" or people that actually know what they're talking about?
My Honda calls for 0/20 in the us. If you look up that same engine number in Europe they use 5w 40. I run 0 40. It runs super quiet and actually smoother. Gas mileage has not changed.
The engine in my 07 F150 is spec'd 5W20. In 1997, its 1st year in production, it was spec'd 5W30. In 2000 Ford spec'd 5W20, and back spec'd 5W20. I have used whatever weight oil I wanted to and it is still running with over 150K miles.
I have been doing a lot of reading about 0W40 in engines such as mine. There are mixed opinions about it and how it can ruin my engine. Some are even stating that using a 0W40 in a 0W20 spec'd engine will ruin it as well. Some are positive responses. Such as, use it over any other oil. It will protect your engine, esp. at start up and operating temperature.
What gives? I have had PP EURO 0W40 in my engine for almost a month, maybe more, and it has NEVER run as quiet as it does now. Am I reading opinions from "ARMCHAIR QUARTERBACKS" or people that actually know what they're talking about?
My Honda calls for 0/20 in the us. If you look up that same engine number in Europe they use 5w 40. I run 0 40. It runs super quiet and actually smoother. Gas mileage has not changed.
This goes hand in had with different Countries having owners manuals recommending different oil viscosity for the same engine. If the factories are approving different oil weights across the board per engine, how can variations in what a person puts in an engine (within limits: 5w-20 vs 60 wight racing oil in the winter) harm an engine? Can it be based wholly on fuel mileage ratings or cold weather oil flow or high temperature engine protection?
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: fordman65
You have the thin 0W with the protection of 40.
I would rephrase that to read "you have the extreme cold temperature performance as indicated by the 0W designation and the higher temp protection offered by the increased viscosity of the 40 weight." As all oils get thicker as they cool, so there's nothing "thin" about the 0W Winter classification when it is applied to a Euro 0w-30 or 0w-40.
Exactly
Originally Posted By: fordman65
You have the thin 0W with the protection of 40.
I would rephrase that to read "you have the extreme cold temperature performance as indicated by the 0W designation and the higher temp protection offered by the increased viscosity of the 40 weight." As all oils get thicker as they cool, so there's nothing "thin" about the 0W Winter classification when it is applied to a Euro 0w-30 or 0w-40.
Exactly
Well, I have decided to continue using 0W40 oil in my trucks engine.
I had to go to Baton Rouge today to pick up some firearms that my son purchased for me. It's a 132 mile trip one way. I usually get anywhere from 17-19 mpg on this trip. Today, 20.1 mpg. I'm not going to say it's the oil that achieved this mpg increase, because theoretically, I don't know this to be true. But, it is what it is. Oh, and it makes my engine run more quiet than any other oil I have used before.
I had to go to Baton Rouge today to pick up some firearms that my son purchased for me. It's a 132 mile trip one way. I usually get anywhere from 17-19 mpg on this trip. Today, 20.1 mpg. I'm not going to say it's the oil that achieved this mpg increase, because theoretically, I don't know this to be true. But, it is what it is. Oh, and it makes my engine run more quiet than any other oil I have used before.
Hello kind sir,
You obviously didn’t read my entire post.
First post back in over 2 years.
Why did I leave this forum for 2 years ?
Due to the petty, nit picking that happens.
I stated it was just my non scientific opinion.
Read below...
In my honest (non scientifc) humble opinion.
You have the thin 0W with the protection of 40.
Plus if it is a long drain oil.
The 0W the oil flows very well at 0F.
In my non scientific mind that tells me it would flow well at normal operating temperatures.
I mean BMW,Mercedes,Porsche, Audi.
They ought to know a little more than me or anyone else.
Those companies specify that oil in Europe for a lot of cars.
You obviously didn’t read my entire post.
First post back in over 2 years.
Why did I leave this forum for 2 years ?
Due to the petty, nit picking that happens.
I stated it was just my non scientific opinion.
Read below...
In my honest (non scientifc) humble opinion.
You have the thin 0W with the protection of 40.
Plus if it is a long drain oil.
The 0W the oil flows very well at 0F.
In my non scientific mind that tells me it would flow well at normal operating temperatures.
I mean BMW,Mercedes,Porsche, Audi.
They ought to know a little more than me or anyone else.
Those companies specify that oil in Europe for a lot of cars.
Originally Posted By: fordman65
At 0W the oil flows very well at 0F.
No, it is PUMPABLE at -40F. That's the ability to refill the oil pickup, and supply oil to the engine...-40F, I personally am amazed at.
Originally Posted By: fordman65
In my non scientific mind that tells me it would flow well at normal operating temperatures.
At anything other than the extremes of pumping, oils all flow pretty much the same 32F...nothing measurable in terms of flow.
Originally Posted By: fordman65
I mean BMW,Mercedes,Porsche, Audi.
They ought to know a little more than me or anyone else.
Those companies specify that oil in Europe for a lot of cars.
Yep, they are pretty clever
At 0W the oil flows very well at 0F.
No, it is PUMPABLE at -40F. That's the ability to refill the oil pickup, and supply oil to the engine...-40F, I personally am amazed at.
Originally Posted By: fordman65
In my non scientific mind that tells me it would flow well at normal operating temperatures.
At anything other than the extremes of pumping, oils all flow pretty much the same 32F...nothing measurable in terms of flow.
Originally Posted By: fordman65
I mean BMW,Mercedes,Porsche, Audi.
They ought to know a little more than me or anyone else.
Those companies specify that oil in Europe for a lot of cars.
Yep, they are pretty clever
Originally Posted By: fordman65
I don’t believe that oil is intended to be used at -40F.
Only mentioned just at 0 F.
There's a nice chart on the linked page showing the viscosities that viscosities that 0WXX through 25WXX oils must meet at low temperatures.
0WXX oils are tested for pumpability at -40C (which also happens to be -40F) and cold cranking at -35C, while the test temps for 25WXX are
-15C and -10C respectively.
I don’t believe that oil is intended to be used at -40F.
Only mentioned just at 0 F.
There's a nice chart on the linked page showing the viscosities that viscosities that 0WXX through 25WXX oils must meet at low temperatures.
0WXX oils are tested for pumpability at -40C (which also happens to be -40F) and cold cranking at -35C, while the test temps for 25WXX are
-15C and -10C respectively.
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: fordman65
I don’t believe that oil is intended to be used at -40F.
Only mentioned just at 0 F.
There's a nice chart on the linked page showing the viscosities that viscosities that 0WXX through 25WXX oils must meet at low temperatures.
0WXX oils are tested for pumpability at -40C (which also happens to be -40F) and cold cranking at -35C, while the test temps for 25WXX are
-15C and -10C respectively.
OOPS...
https://wiki.anton-paar.com/en/sae-viscosity-grades/
Originally Posted By: fordman65
I don’t believe that oil is intended to be used at -40F.
Only mentioned just at 0 F.
There's a nice chart on the linked page showing the viscosities that viscosities that 0WXX through 25WXX oils must meet at low temperatures.
0WXX oils are tested for pumpability at -40C (which also happens to be -40F) and cold cranking at -35C, while the test temps for 25WXX are
-15C and -10C respectively.
OOPS...
https://wiki.anton-paar.com/en/sae-viscosity-grades/
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: fordman65
Hello kind sir,
You obviously didn’t read my entire post.
I most certainly did, I simply took issue with that one little point, which is why I only quoted it.
Originally Posted By: fordman65
First post back in over 2 years.
Why did I leave this forum for 2 years ?
Due to the petty, nit picking that happens.
Well, welcome back. It wasn't petty nit-picking, but clarification as to what the number in front of the W indicates.
Originally Posted By: fordman65
I stated it was just my non scientific opinion.
Read below...
In my honest (non scientifc) humble opinion.
You have the thin 0W with the protection of 40.
Plus if it is a long drain oil.
Yes, I read that and corrected it. I understand it is your opinion, however it was worded as being categorically wrong (0W doesn't denote thin, it denotes the ability to pass the CCS and MRV requirements at -35C and -40C respectively) and I politely offered a revised version of the statement that read properly.
Originally Posted By: fordman65
The 0W the oil flows very well at 0F.
In my non scientific mind that tells me it would flow well at normal operating temperatures.
I mean BMW,Mercedes,Porsche, Audi.
They ought to know a little more than me or anyone else.
Those companies specify that oil in Europe for a lot of cars.
0F is roughly -18C.
0W-xx denotes passing of CCS/MRV at -35C/-40C
5W-xx denotes passing of CCS/MRV at -30C/-35C
10W-xx denotes passing of CCS/MRV at -25C/-30C
15W-xx denotes passing of CCS/MRV at -20C/-25C
20W-xx denotes passing of CCS/MRV at -15C/20C
So your 0F threshold is roughly the cranking limit for the 15W-xx designation. So 15W-xx, 10W-xx, 5W-xx and 0W-xx are all suitable for use at that temperature and will have no undue impact on cranking speed, and all will pump (MRV).
The 0W-40 and 0W-30 grades specified by European OEM's are for their broad base of coverage, working basically anywhere in the world and it is an excellent choice. My Grand Cherokee also calls for a 0w-40.
Hello kind sir,
You obviously didn’t read my entire post.
I most certainly did, I simply took issue with that one little point, which is why I only quoted it.
Originally Posted By: fordman65
First post back in over 2 years.
Why did I leave this forum for 2 years ?
Due to the petty, nit picking that happens.
Well, welcome back. It wasn't petty nit-picking, but clarification as to what the number in front of the W indicates.
Originally Posted By: fordman65
I stated it was just my non scientific opinion.
Read below...
In my honest (non scientifc) humble opinion.
You have the thin 0W with the protection of 40.
Plus if it is a long drain oil.
Yes, I read that and corrected it. I understand it is your opinion, however it was worded as being categorically wrong (0W doesn't denote thin, it denotes the ability to pass the CCS and MRV requirements at -35C and -40C respectively) and I politely offered a revised version of the statement that read properly.
Originally Posted By: fordman65
The 0W the oil flows very well at 0F.
In my non scientific mind that tells me it would flow well at normal operating temperatures.
I mean BMW,Mercedes,Porsche, Audi.
They ought to know a little more than me or anyone else.
Those companies specify that oil in Europe for a lot of cars.
0F is roughly -18C.
0W-xx denotes passing of CCS/MRV at -35C/-40C
5W-xx denotes passing of CCS/MRV at -30C/-35C
10W-xx denotes passing of CCS/MRV at -25C/-30C
15W-xx denotes passing of CCS/MRV at -20C/-25C
20W-xx denotes passing of CCS/MRV at -15C/20C
So your 0F threshold is roughly the cranking limit for the 15W-xx designation. So 15W-xx, 10W-xx, 5W-xx and 0W-xx are all suitable for use at that temperature and will have no undue impact on cranking speed, and all will pump (MRV).
The 0W-40 and 0W-30 grades specified by European OEM's are for their broad base of coverage, working basically anywhere in the world and it is an excellent choice. My Grand Cherokee also calls for a 0w-40.
I've run everything from 0W-20 to 15W-40 in my 1985 Corolla. They all work fine. You lose a lot of HP and MPG with xW-40 though. That's because the mechanical energy that would normally go to the wheels is converted into heat by the internal fluid friction of the thick oil.
Thick oil helps reduce oil burning though if you have bad valve-stem oil seals. However, it doesn't help reduce oil burning with bad piston rings.
Thick oil helps reduce oil burning though if you have bad valve-stem oil seals. However, it doesn't help reduce oil burning with bad piston rings.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I've run everything from 0W-20 to 15W-40 in my 1985 Corolla. They all work fine. You lose a lot of HP and MPG with xW-40 though.
You lose a lot of horsepower by driving a 1985 Corolla.
Of course, that applies to an F-150 of similar vintage using a straight six, too.
I've run everything from 0W-20 to 15W-40 in my 1985 Corolla. They all work fine. You lose a lot of HP and MPG with xW-40 though.
You lose a lot of horsepower by driving a 1985 Corolla.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I've run everything from 0W-20 to 15W-40 in my 1985 Corolla. They all work fine. You lose a lot of HP and MPG with xW-40 though. That's because the mechanical energy that would normally go to the wheels is converted into heat by the internal fluid friction of the thick oil.
Thick oil helps reduce oil burning though if you have bad valve-stem oil seals. However, it doesn't help reduce oil burning with bad piston rings.
I would love to see some dyno results to quantify "a lot". I'd wager it isn't anywhere near as much as you think it is
I've run everything from 0W-20 to 15W-40 in my 1985 Corolla. They all work fine. You lose a lot of HP and MPG with xW-40 though. That's because the mechanical energy that would normally go to the wheels is converted into heat by the internal fluid friction of the thick oil.
Thick oil helps reduce oil burning though if you have bad valve-stem oil seals. However, it doesn't help reduce oil burning with bad piston rings.
I would love to see some dyno results to quantify "a lot". I'd wager it isn't anywhere near as much as you think it is
Have said similarly in the past.
Yes, when I ran a 25W70 through our winter, I lost 10% of the fuel economy, and it was noticably sluggish. (J Car, 2.0L)
But the effects being attributed here are way overblown.
Here's some bench data 10W30 to 20W50 in a calibrated test engine..
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a0ed/d6a88f66b4cd011d1d896d18489a9947c046.pdf
Yes, when I ran a 25W70 through our winter, I lost 10% of the fuel economy, and it was noticably sluggish. (J Car, 2.0L)
But the effects being attributed here are way overblown.
Here's some bench data 10W30 to 20W50 in a calibrated test engine..
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a0ed/d6a88f66b4cd011d1d896d18489a9947c046.pdf
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Have said similarly in the past.
Yes, when I ran a 25W70 through our winter, I lost 10% of the fuel economy, and it was noticably sluggish. (J Car, 2.0L)
But the effects being attributed here are way overblown.
Here's some bench data 10W30 to 20W50 in a calibrated test engine..
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a0ed/d6a88f66b4cd011d1d896d18489a9947c046.pdf
Which shows the difference between 10w-30 and 20w-50 at operating temperature as being 122 watts, or 0.16HP on a 100HP test mule.
Have said similarly in the past.
Yes, when I ran a 25W70 through our winter, I lost 10% of the fuel economy, and it was noticably sluggish. (J Car, 2.0L)
But the effects being attributed here are way overblown.
Here's some bench data 10W30 to 20W50 in a calibrated test engine..
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a0ed/d6a88f66b4cd011d1d896d18489a9947c046.pdf
Which shows the difference between 10w-30 and 20w-50 at operating temperature as being 122 watts, or 0.16HP on a 100HP test mule.
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