0W20 for good protection?

[Luftmasse]

No it doesn’t. And even if it did you would want the oil film as thick as possible, not thin. MOFT is what prevents wear not the other way around. People are always getting that reversed.

Didn't a member foxtrot18? made a long discussion in regards of cold startup wear does exist?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Start-up wear is caused by short periods of lack of lubrication, and parts tolerances changing during temperature changes between cold and hot conditions. If the oil is too thick to pump and flow well, it could cause a short period of lack of lubrication to force fed components and on splashed parts depending on the oiling system design.

 

[PontiacHO]

How would that dictate what oil viscosity to use? Need more info. If the oil passages on the suction side of the system caused oiling system pumpability problems, it would be occurring at cold start-up when the oil is cold and thick, so that could happen regardless of what the KV100 viscosity of the oil is.

The suction side doesn’t “cause” any problems. The 5.3 uses a two stage vane pump. Not the old gear pump of the last 90 years. In my opinion a vane pump (like transmission and power steering) can actually lose prime if a too thick oil/fluid is used. It’s all in what you trust. Manufacturer’s specified oil or what YOU want.

 

[OVERKILL]

The suction side doesn’t “cause” any problems. The 5.3 uses a two stage vane pump. Not the old gear pump of the last 90 years. In my opinion a vane pump (like transmission and power steering) can actually lose prime if a too thick oil/fluid is used. It’s all in what you trust. Manufacturer’s specified oil or what YOU want.

If that's the case, folks in Winnipeg are going to have some serious issues.

BTW, do you have a diagram or part # for these pumps? I'm curious as that's new, most variable output pumps are either variable displacement (changing chamber size) or variable relief.

 

[PimTac]

It’s funny that this thread is questioning the protection a 0W-20 oil can give yet we have another active thread with an engine with over 400,000 miles on it using 0w-20.


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2019-subaru-439k-miles-nothing-but-0w20.361060/

 

[ZeeOSix]

The suction side doesn’t “cause” any problems. The 5.3 uses a two stage vane pump. Not the old gear pump of the last 90 years. In my opinion a vane pump (like transmission and power steering) can actually lose prime if a too thick oil/fluid is used. It’s all in what you trust. Manufacturer’s specified oil or what YOU want.

You originally said: "Oiling passages cast in the block for oiling on the SUCTION side of the oiling system." And making it sound like that was responsible for causing problems and the reason the engines were "designed" for a specific oil viscosity. Now the story seems to be changing and focused on the oil pump. Like said earlier, all oil is 100 times thicker when cold than hot, even 0W-20. So if issues are being caused by thick oil not priming the pump, it's not going to matter if it's 0W-20 or 5W-50. It would basically boil down to an inadequate oil pump design.

 

[Astro14]

0W-30 and 10W-30 are different multi viscosity grades. I still don’t know how you don’t understand that. With that being said, I only use what’s on the engine oil cap or another viscosity stated in the OM.

So, how are they different?

 

[Astro14]

The suction side doesn’t “cause” any problems. The 5.3 uses a two stage vane pump. Not the old gear pump of the last 90 years. In my opinion a vane pump (like transmission and power steering) can actually lose prime if a too thick oil/fluid is used. It’s all in what you trust. Manufacturer’s specified oil or what YOU want.

So, the oil pump will lose prime if “too thick“ oil is used?

Then, what happens in a cold start?

When the oil is hundreds, or thousands, of times thicker than when the engine is warm?

How can the pump function when the oil is so very, very thick?

 

[PontiacHO]

You originally said: "Oiling passages cast in the block for oiling on the SUCTION side of the oiling system." And making it sound like that was responsible for causing problems and the reason the engines were "designed" for a specific oil viscosity. Now the story seems to be changing and focused on the oil pump. Like said earlier, all oil is 100 times thicker when cold than hot, even 0W-20. So if issues are being caused by thick oil not priming the pump, it's not going to matter if it's 0W-20 or 5W-50. It would basically boil down to an inadequate oil pump design.

I thought I was right but not so. Two stage vane oil pump though. I really don’t know what the hell im talking about half the time. That is my “story”. So get all fu#@ed up about that!

 

[PontiacHO]

So, the oil pump will lose prime if “too thick“ oil is used?

Then, what happens in a cold start?

When the oil is hundreds, or thousands, of times thicker than when the engine is warm?

How can the pump function when the oil is so very, very thick?

Reckon that’s a really good question. Dam if I know….

 

[Blinker]

So, how are they different?

As a staff member, don’t you already know this?

The 0W-30 has a lower cold crank rating over 10W-30. 0W-30, 5W-30, and 10W-30 are all different multi viscosity oils.

Here’s a link to Castrol for you or anyone else who still is confused.

https://www.castrol.com/en_us/unite...uids/engine-oils/oil-viscosity-explained.html

 

[Astro14]

As a staff member, don’t you already know this?

The 0W-30 has a lower cold crank rating over 10W-30. 0W-30, 5W-30, and 10W-30 are all different multi viscosity oils.

Here’s a link to Castrol for you or anyone else who still is confused.

https://www.castrol.com/en_us/unite...uids/engine-oils/oil-viscosity-explained.html

I see that my attempt at rhetoric was lost on you.

Since you linked that reference, let’s zero in where I was trying to lead.

What’s the difference at operating temperature?

Here’s the biggest question: Why are you bickering with others on pedantic points that have no relevance to the topic?

 

[ZeeOSix]

I thought I was right but not so. Two stage vane oil pump though. I really don’t know what the hell im talking about half the time. That is my “story”. So get all fu#@ed up about that!

Just trying to figure out what you're talking about since I never heard of what you were describing.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

As a staff member, don’t you already know this?

The 0W-30 has a lower cold crank rating over 10W-30. 0W-30, 5W-30, and 10W-30 are all different multi viscosity oils.

Here’s a link to Castrol for you or anyone else who still is confused.

https://www.castrol.com/en_us/unite...uids/engine-oils/oil-viscosity-explained.html

You clearly still don’t understand that you don’t understand, and it’s clear that you have no intention of trying to understand. Understand?

 

[Blinker]

I see that my attempt at rhetoric was lost on you.

Since you linked that reference, let’s zero in where I was trying to lead.

What’s the difference at operating temperature?

Here’s the biggest question: Why are you bickering with others on pedantic points that have no relevance to the topic?

My points are relevant to the topic. I stated how I only use oil viscosities that are recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. It was at that point someone else commented saying that 0W-30 and 10W-30 are the same viscosity at operating temp, which is true, but they aren’t the same multi viscosity oils. My bickering is just defending the fact that 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30 are different multi viscosity oils, even though they are 30 viscosity at operating temp. Some folks have had issue understanding that.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

My points are relevant to the topic. I stated how I only use oil viscosities that are recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. It was at that point someone else commented saying that 0W-30 and 10W-30 are the same viscosity at operating temp, which is true, but they aren’t the same multi viscosity oils. My bickering is just defending the fact that 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30 are different multi viscosity oils, even though they are 30 viscosity at operating temp. Some folks have had issue understanding that.

Still wrong.

 

[ZeeOSix]

 

[OVERKILL]

My points are relevant to the topic. I stated how I only use oil viscosities that are recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. It was at that point someone else commented saying that 0W-30 and 10W-30 are the same viscosity at operating temp, which is true, but they aren’t the same multi viscosity oils. My bickering is just defending the fact that 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30 are different multi viscosity oils, even though they are 30 viscosity at operating temp. Some folks have had issue understanding that.

They are generally interchangeable. Mobil famously marketed their AFE 0W-20 and 0W-30 oils for all applications that called for a 5W-20 or 5W-30. Heck, the Euro approvals don't even call out a viscosity half the time, just the approval, which is often on 5W-30, 0W-30, 5W-40, 0W-40, sometimes even 10W-40 and 10W-30.

 

[CarfriendXX]

It’s funny that this thread is questioning the protection a 0W-20 oil can give yet we have another active thread with an engine with over 400,000 miles on it using 0w-20.


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2019-subaru-439k-miles-nothing-but-0w20.361060/

This is knowingly ignored by the people of grey theory. How can you doubt any analysis here and predict every sae20 oil more wear if there are practical counterexamples. A UOA is not pointless in the respective analysis method if you know how to classify it. Oil is more quarrelled than is actually proven. I do not predict a well-designed engine with a lower mileage in SAE20 release and use. This is also proven by the American and Japanese taxis, which now have 1 million kilometres and more with sae20 oils on them. Manufacturers such as Honda have been testing and developing these lubricants for many years, so eternal scepticism is simply not always appropriate. Where do you read or hear about engine damage due to the oil? Bearings or turbocharger damage are mostly recorded in vehicles that recommend sae40 or as with bmw SAE60, right? The majority of sae20 developed engines work perfectly. Eternal scepticism and the bad doing of these oils does not help you at all.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Yep. The first time I saw that was from Honda. A 20-grade was essentially the last iteration that could be applied to what were traditional engine designs. After that it took redesign to permit thinner grades to be used. But adequate wear isn’t a word I wish to use for my vehicles since I do not place fuel economy as my primary and sole concern.

Amen.