From the top, DECADE old SAE-Lubrizol article...This was linked by @Shannow a few years back:
Low Viscosity SAE 16 Oils Will Require Cutting-edge Additive Technology to Address Wear Challenges - Lubrizol Additives 360 - PassengerIn April of 2013, the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) introduced a new, low viscosity grade specification in revisions made to the J300 Engine Oil Classification. Formally labeled as SAE 16, the new oil specification will help OEMs meet increasingly strict corporate average fuel economy...web.archive.org
To further contribute to higher fuel economy, a reduction in the oil’s high-temperature, high-shear (HTHS) viscosity limits has also been defined in SAE 16. Set at a minimum of 2.3 mPa⋅s at 150°C, this marks the first time ever that SAE has defined this limit below 2.6. Although it will help improve fuel efficiency throughout the entire oil drain interval, it opens the door for increased wear and tear on critical engine parts. This makes the development of new additives suitable for ultra-thin oils in high power density engines that much more critical.
GF-6B, on the other hand, forgoes the requirement to be backwards compatible with GF-5 applications and opens the door for the development of ultra-low viscosity lubricants (i.e., SAE 16) that will push the industry into areas of formulation that have never before been encountered. These lubricants will produce significant fuel economy benefits for many engine applications, but because of their low viscosity grade, there is the potential for wear or other durability related issues.
When asked about the implications that SAE XW-16 will have on passenger car motor oil (PCMO) performance requirements, Lubrizol’s PCMO Product Manager, Jon Vilardo, said:
“While it is generally accepted that lower viscosity brings an improvement in fuel economy performance, it can have a negative impact on durability; the protective oil film is less robust, or under the most extreme loading conditions, non-existent. In terms of performance requirements, this translates to a set of standards that will ensure fuel economy is improved via lower viscosity, but durability will not be compromised. The future proposed ultra-low viscosity GF-6B specification requires the same durability performance as the proposed GF-6A. This may require enhanced fortification of specific additive components or a different formulation shape to deliver the required durability in SAE XW-16 fluids.”
And some more quality content from @Shannow:
Originally Posted By: Shannow* in fact I don't run 50s, full stop (unless you want to pick on the 40 blend in my sig as having 50 in it) Your sig is gone as of this writing; time to 'fess up to the SAE 50 in the sump.bobistheoilguy.com
And another Shannow quote, with a link to a few papers:
...conditions being the norm for future engines? In a recent thread about high VI oils and VIIs few members mentioned that in the near future we will see more and more engines running in a mix of hydrodynamic and boundary conditions. I understand that even today's engine do run in boundary...bobistheoilguy.com
Also a good point by Solarant that Shannow was responding to.
Lots of stuff on this in the bowels of this forum, though unfortunately most of Shannow's pictures are no longer with us, I was hoping to find the snapshot of the Honda paper that talked about "acceptable wear" that kicked off many of these discussions in the past.
All band aids to use low viscosity oils to please the misinformed green nuts. Cafe.Engine friction reduction, variable oil pumps and good thermal management allows safe application of low viscosity oil. Toyota's engines are well designed for such parameters.
That YOU know of. Plenty have gone back, trust me.The Toyota Yaris GR has a 10-year factory warranty up to a maximum of 160,000 km in Europe and only 0w20 API SP GF-6A is approved. i think toyota is sure of its engines and so far no engine problems are known with the yaris.
I tell you what. You're so sure about Toyota's oil recommendations, I have a deal for you.The Toyota Yaris GR has a 10-year factory warranty up to a maximum of 160,000 km in Europe and only 0w20 API SP GF-6A is approved. i think toyota is sure of its engines and so far no engine problems are known with the yaris.
Ford always used 5w30 in turbo engines. For year 2021 ford switched back to 5w30 in the 5.0 due to oil consumption and wear issues in timing chain guides.I’ve posted in the past the Ford went to 5w20 in 2001, more than 20 years ago. We should be asking the Ford long haulers. Another piece of info is that Ford recently went back to 5w30 for the 5.0 and the twin turbo V-6.
For the same 5.0, they recommend 5w50 for track use. We know that high RPM use increases oil temperature. That is well documented.
Yes they are sure of obtaining acceptable wear within that timeframe. If that’s what you want then you’re good to go.The Toyota Yaris GR has a 10-year factory warranty up to a maximum of 160,000 km in Europe and only 0w20 API SP GF-6A is approved. i think toyota is sure of its engines and so far no engine problems are known with the yaris.
Or the bottom end isn’t stiff enough and flops around like Gumby on crack playing twister… since it seems that no matter what oil or what machining is done and this is the result, I’d be more inclined to believe it’s poor design rather than an oil or bearing issue.
Can you imagine what those bearings would look like if xW-20 was used during track days?Or the bottom end isn’t stiff enough and flops around like Gumby on crack playing twister… since it seems that no matter what oil or what machining is done and this is the result, I’d be more inclined to believe it’s poor design rather than an oil or bearing issue.
But then again I haven’t devoted tons of time into researching that engine’s problems…