0W-20 thoughts for Ford 3.5 Ti-VCT?

[PowerSurge]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
You're talking about one engine and a generalized statement. Many engines need oil flow/pressure in the top end ASAP to minimize wear in parts such as vvt solenoids. This information is per a family member that is a power train engineer with an auto manufacturer.

Engines get "flow/pressure" in the top end regardless of the grade, as long as the winter rating is appropriate for the conditions.


Right. But you missed the "ASAP". Like he stated to me, there will be a slight increase in wear on solenoids, phasers, etc. with a higher viscosity oil. In the summer months it's not as much a problem, but someone who runs a 5w or 10w oil in cooler/colder months it is if a 0w is specified, for example. We're not talking about drivability here, we're talking about a small increase in wear. For those who drive their cars for years it matters.

Edit: This is one of the reasons (and also fuel mileage) a few years ago that Honda said that 0w-20 is compatible with their older vehicles that call for 5w-20.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by OilUzer
if you are talking about strength, One of my cars recommends 0w20 but I use 10W30 and 5W30.!


That's a bad idea if that vehicle has variable cam and/or valve timing.

No it is not. Key is whether engine is constructed with ONLY light oils in mind or it allows different oils.
I use 5W30 in 2GR-FE in Toyota SIenna which is recommended for 0W20.
Same engine was recommended for 5W30 until 2012, same engine is recommended for ACEA A3 and C3 oils (heavy 0/5W30 or generally light 0/5W40 oils) in Europe and Russia, and in Australia it is allowed to use 20W50 oil, and it has VVT.


You're talking about one engine and a generalized statement. Many engines need oil flow/pressure in the top end ASAP to minimize wear in parts such as vvt solenoids. This information is per a family member that is a power train engineer with an auto manufacturer.

And what that has to do with W20 part?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
You're talking about one engine and a generalized statement. Many engines need oil flow/pressure in the top end ASAP to minimize wear in parts such as vvt solenoids. This information is per a family member that is a power train engineer with an auto manufacturer.

Engines get "flow/pressure" in the top end regardless of the grade, as long as the winter rating is appropriate for the conditions.


Right. But you missed the "ASAP". Like he stated to me, there will be a slight increase in wear on solenoids, phasers, etc. with a higher viscosity oil. In the summer months it's not as much a problem, but someone who runs a 5w or 10w oil in cooler/colder months it is if a 0w is specified, for example. We're not talking about drivability here, we're talking about a small increase in wear. For those who drive their cars for years it matters.

Edit: This is one of the reasons (and also fuel mileage) a few years ago that Honda said that 0w-20 is compatible with their older vehicles that call for 5w-20.

What are colder months? There is no such things as colder months. There is MRV and CCP numbers. It is pretty simple.
There are a lot of 0W oils that actually are thicker at 0 degrees than 5W oils Unless we are talking about -30 or -40 degree, it is irrelevant.
Then one just gets 0W30 or 0W40 oil. Problem solved.

 

[PowerSurge]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
You're talking about one engine and a generalized statement. Many engines need oil flow/pressure in the top end ASAP to minimize wear in parts such as vvt solenoids. This information is per a family member that is a power train engineer with an auto manufacturer.

Engines get "flow/pressure" in the top end regardless of the grade, as long as the winter rating is appropriate for the conditions.


Right. But you missed the "ASAP". Like he stated to me, there will be a slight increase in wear on solenoids, phasers, etc. with a higher viscosity oil. In the summer months it's not as much a problem, but someone who runs a 5w or 10w oil in cooler/colder months it is if a 0w is specified, for example. We're not talking about drivability here, we're talking about a small increase in wear. For those who drive their cars for years it matters.

Edit: This is one of the reasons (and also fuel mileage) a few years ago that Honda said that 0w-20 is compatible with their older vehicles that call for 5w-20.

What are colder months? There is no such things as colder months. There is MRV and CCP numbers. It is pretty simple.
There are a lot of 0W oils that actually are thicker at 0 degrees than 5W oils Unless we are talking about -30 or -40 degree, it is irrelevant.
Then one just gets 0W30 or 0W40 oil. Problem solved.


Irrelevant? That's just flat not true based on information from people that actually engineer/test/develop engines. In the end it's your car and you can buy and use whatever you like.

 

[edyvw]

Quote
Irrelevant? That's just flat not true based on information from people that actually engineer/test/develop engines. In the end it's your car and you can buy and use whatever you like.

Instead of "talking" to people you can search for yourself and find data and read it. Many manufacturers are going to provide you with relevant performance numbers when it comes to cold start pumpability.
And you being in ATL could run actually year long 10W30 oil.
This is what happens when someone suddenly discovers VVT and role oil plays in the engine. So yeah, it is irrelevant. I start my vehicle regulalrly in winter here in temperatures below -20 in the mountains, and engine still did not explode.

 

[PowerSurge]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
Irrelevant? That's just flat not true based on information from people that actually engineer/test/develop engines. In the end it's your car and you can buy and use whatever you like.

Instead of "talking" to people you can search for yourself and find data and read it. Many manufacturers are going to provide you with relevant performance numbers when it comes to cold start pumpability.
And you being in ATL could run actually year long 10W30 oil.
This is what happens when someone suddenly discovers VVT and role oil plays in the engine. So yeah, it is irrelevant. I start my vehicle regulalrly in winter here in temperatures below -20 in the mountains, and engine still did not explode.


No one thinks your engine is going to "explode" by using a higher viscosity oil. That's a childish statement. No offense, but I'm really not going to waste any more time debating you. It's your car, use what you want. Have a great night!

 

[tundraotto]

Thanks for the introduction PowerSurge.....lol - I think you have just been proven mistaken in your assertions.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by OilUzer
if you are talking about strength, One of my cars recommends 0w20 but I use 10W30 and 5W30.!


That's a bad idea if that vehicle has variable cam and/or valve timing.


Can't tell any difference at all in my v6's.

I agree, I couldn't tell a difference either. I consulted experts and did my homework over the years and decided a 30 grade oil was a better choice, for me in my engines calling for a 20 grade oil. A 30 grade oil is not going to damage my VVT engine, in fact in other parts of the world it is recommended. So why would it damage the same vehicle/engine in the US?

 

[PowerSurge]

Originally Posted by tundraotto
Thanks for the introduction PowerSurge.....lol - I think you have just been proven mistaken in your assertions.


And I "think" you are mistaken. He has only "proven" himself ignorant of facts. And this is based on someone telling me it's safe to run 10w-30 year round in Atlanta in a modern engine that specifies a 0w-x oil where it's getting down to 24 degrees tonight? His opinions are not consistent with those that know automobile engines inside and out. Following his errant advice will do nothing but cause higher wear in the engines of people that heed his advice.

We're talking about the difference between mechanical engineers that DESIGN, BUILD and TEST engines for a LIVING, and an ‘internet expert'.

Just because someone is a newer member here doesn't mean they have less or incorrect knowledge than someone else.

 

[tundraotto]

You're over your head PowerSurge.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by tundraotto
Thanks for the introduction PowerSurge.....lol - I think you have just been proven mistaken in your assertions.


And I "think" you are mistaken. He has only "proven" himself ignorant of facts. And this is based on someone telling me it's safe to run 10w-30 year round in Atlanta in a modern engine that specifies a 0w-x oil where it's getting down to 24 degrees tonight? His opinions are not consistent with those that know automobile engines inside and out. Following his errant advice will do nothing but cause higher wear in the engines of people that heed his advice.

We're talking about the difference between mechanical engineers that DESIGN, BUILD and TEST engines for a LIVING, and an ‘internet expert'.

Just because someone is a newer member here doesn't mean they have less or incorrect knowledge than someone else.

I am not sure how you and your car will survive those 24 degrees, but let's assume you will wake up in the morning, regardless of such tragic climate occurrence in ATL.
Latest BMW generation of engines, B generation, is specified for 0W20 oils here in the US, AND LL01 oils, which could mean anything from heavy 0/5W30 to mostly light to medium heavy 0/5W40 oils as long as HTHS is above 3.5cp. I highly doubt anyone here would argue that BMW valvetrain mechanism is simple, but it is good example of how engine is designed.
By the way, since you are talking about who tests what. When manufacturers make engines, they make engines with various fail safe factors, including ability of engine to be run on various oils. I know, I was working on development of some oils and made living out of that. More precisely I was working on testing.
And yes, you can still run 10W30 in 24 degrees.

 

[OilUzer]

I have the exact data (ccs, mrv, etc.) on my other computer.
However, iirc, 10W can be safely used down to -12°F (after I joined bitog) and was pretty sure down to 0°F (before joining bitog and according to the charts in several car manuals).

Anyways, in my area the winters are mild and way over 0°F typically a few days in the low 20's ... Just to be safe, I use 5W in winter due to high levels of ocd

those Canadians can send us some cold weather once in a while like 16°F

I used to live in Idaho and always used 10W40 in MUCH colder weather!

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
And I "think" you are mistaken. He has only "proven" himself ignorant of facts. And this is based on someone telling me it's safe to run 10w-30 year round in Atlanta in a modern engine that specifies a 0w-x oil where it's getting down to 24 degrees tonight? His opinions are not consistent with those that know automobile engines inside and out. Following his errant advice will do nothing but cause higher wear in the engines of people that heed his advice.

Of course it is. What viscosity data would make you think otherwise?

 

[metroplex]

Use whatever oil you want, but the water pump will go and when that happens, it's $2000 to replace at the dealership. Ford used an internal water pump on the transverse 3.5/3.7 engines.