02 GranAm 2.2l 4cyl, Chevron Supreme 5w30

[Terry]

• Dyson Analysis
  
  Customer Name : Bill Williams Oil Brand/Weight : 5w-30 Chevron Supreme
  Type Equipment : 2002 Pontiac GrandAM Miles/Hours on oil : 5655
  Total Miles/Hours : 11100
  
  Results ppm/% Comments (blank=normal)
  Wear
  Copper 8 Normal
  Iron 95 elevated, need better vis retention
  Chromium 1 normal
  Lead 1 normal
  Aluminum 3 normal
  Silicon 9 low for new engine
  Tin 2 normal
  
  Additives
  Molybdenum 12 rings seating
  Sodium 0 normal
  Magnesium 10 normal
  Zinc 842 normal
  Potassium 0 normal
  Phosphorus 746 normal
  Calcium 1580 normal
  
  Physical Properties
  Water negative
  Fuel negative
  Antifreeze negative
  Soot 0
  Oxidation 23 11.5% low
  Nitration 60 30 % avg.
  Sulfur 46 fuel,
  TBN 10 very high value for a lower cost oil
  Vis@100 C 9.4 30w, but shearing to low side
  
  Final Comments : Normal readings except for Iron wear and vis on low end of 30w.
  Switch to same brand but use the 10w-30 and see if the wear drops. Some of the wear is break-in
  so don't be alarmed. Using Auto-Rx at a 2 to 3 oz rate would reduce the wear also.
  This oil and engine look good overall considering it is new and the oil went almost 6000 miles.
  Any questions ask away !

Terry

[ November 07, 2002, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]

 

[Brad]

Iron of 95!

A TBN of 10? That's really strange. I didn't think even a virgin sample of this oil tested that high. I thought the starting point was around 7 or 8.

 

[Jay]

I wonder what kind of miles Bill puts on this? Mostly highway? Why would Auto-rx help reduce wear on this nearly new engine?

[ November 07, 2002, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Jay ]

 

[Terry]

Auto-Rx at low treat rates like 2 to 3 oz seems to lower wear based on our used oil analysis results in healthy engines. It has a dispersant effect encapsulating the wear particles so they can't continue the wear cycle.

I agree brad 10 TBN is unusually high for this oil. Their new formulation starts around 9.

The higher Iron is not abnormal for a newer GM engine.

 

[Patman]

Is it technically possible for the TBN of an oil to rise like that? Or would this batch of oil have perhaps started out with a higher TBN than normal for this brand of oil?

 

[Jay]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terry:
Auto-Rx at low treat rates like 2 to 3 oz seems to lower wear based on our used oil analysis results in healthy engines. It has a dispersant effect encapsulating the wear particles so they can't continue the wear cycle.

---

Does this dispersant effect work with any oil or just petroleum oils?

 

[Terry]

Patman, yes you can see TBN rise for unknown reasons, 1 point above design isn't unusual but I suspect in this case it is more than likely an additive that was used in assembly that bumped it up, some engines don't stress TBN value and hold or show as slight rise. The Cummins Test is one of those engines.

Dispersant effect works with any host oil, Jay.

 

[Bill Williams]

Terry, many thanks for posting my oil analysis results on this board.

When I changed oil I put the same 5/W/30 oil in again, winter is coming to Wisconsin and I may need that -45 F pour point.However I may go with 10/W/30 next spring.

Jay, We live in a rural area,10 mile trips on hilly country roads about 55% of driving with 45% on two lane highway at 60-65 MPH. With these conditions and this oil the car averaged 34.87 MPG during the 5655 miles.

The Chevron Supreme data sheet I have shows Vis @ 100 C (as 11) is the drop to (9.4)that bad?

I wish Widman would give his opinon on the high TBN of 10 as he has maybe tested a lot of this oil.

Bill

 

[Terry]

Bill, I like to see a oil stay in grade throughout the interval. Yours did but barely.
I agree it would be nice to hear from a Chevron rep on that.

The next drain will be easier on the oil as it wears in.

You are welcome on the posting, its hard for me to figure out how to line up everything but I did my best.

 

[widman]

I can't explain it being that high. Assuming they use the ASTM D2896 I would expect it to be lower. The new oil is (or was when they gave me the formulations for government certification) 5.5, and I have various samples between 4.2 and 6.8.
Two of those are shown here http://american.netfirms.com/analisis/agua/agua.html
in my Ford Ranger that has a problem with water getting in the engine although the dealer can't find it. (this is Chevron Supreme 5w30)

 

[deluxekitty101]

Dispersents work by keeping the insoluable contaminates suspended in the lubricant. Usually by a polar attraction. I have not heard of this theory of encapsulating before with any dispersents .
If possible I would like to expand on this encapsulating theory if possible.

 

[Terry]

DKitty, Certainly polarity is an issue in attracting and trapping the wear particle, for more discussion about micel action contact the Auto-RX chemists. They'll describe the theory better than I can. I have only seen the end result in used oil analysis.

I know that when this stuff cleans it doesn't raise wear values like say a harsh solvent does during cleaning.

 

[Bror Jace]

This is an interesting example ... but since the car had just over 11,000 miles on it, I wouldn't have bothered to have this early batch of oil tested. Once the car gets into the teens and everything gets sorted out, that's when I'd begin testing the oil for real.

5,600 miles on a 5W30 dino oil? In Texas? I don't see the point in pushing an economy-minded oil like this for so long ... especially in a warm-weather state. Like Terry said, I'd switch to 10W30 ... or stick with 5W30 and cut the interval back to 4,000 miles.

--- Bror Jace

 

[MolaKule]

A micelle is an aggregate of "colloidals," much like when soap or detergents form micelles to clump dirt or protein particles to be washed away by the water.

Because of their polarity, most additives exist as complex micellar solutions in which the active portion of individually solvated molecules below the critical micelle concentration (CMC) is very dilute.

The ashless dispersant structure used in modern oil formulations for the control of deposits. A common feature of the ashless dispersant is an oil structure based on polybutene. The linking of the polar head to to the oil solubilizing tail is accomplished by diverse chemical reactions.

In a highly overbased lubricating oil dispersant, the sulfonate Micelle of SO3 surrounds the Calcium Carbonate or Mg Carbonate structure of CaCO3 or MgCo3.

The dispersant plus the sludge forms a sludge micelle in which the sludge is surrounded by the SO3 and the sludge is infiltrated with the CaCO3 (or MgCO3) to base it, ie., reduce its acid content.

 

[dragboat]

Bill Williams
Was it in particular humid during this run on the oil ? Does the car sometines set say for a week at a time without being started ? What was the timeline of the install of the oil and drain ?

Bror,Agree on pushing a buck a quart oil to limit . It in my opinion would be a waste to turn around and do another analysis behind this one due to the residual left unless a short run of the oil was ran and drained,,say 1 - 2 k for example then start over whith a run of 4k or so.

Bror,FWIW he lives in Wisconsin,,thats only one of the reasons I asked for a timeframe of date to date the oil was used

[ December 09, 2002, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

 

[Bill Williams]

dragboat,

This oil was run from June till Oct. And the car was in use most every day. The weather was no more humid than normal but it was very HOT for Wisconsin.

Why is it suggested I do not have an analysis done when I do the next oil change?? I had intended to test again then and also the following one. If all looks good after the last one I will stay with this oil.

My last car I used Mobil 1 5/W/30 after the first 5,000 miles untill 112,000 miles. At the end it was using a quart in about 700 miles but if I would add dino oil it did not get a quart low untill after 1,ooo miles or more. That is why I am trying Chevron Supreme Dino.

Bill

 

[Giles]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill Williams:
My last car I used Mobil 1 5/W/30 after the first 5,000 miles untill 112,000 miles. At the end it was using a quart in about 700 miles but if I would add dino oil it did not get a quart low untill after 1,ooo miles or more. That is why I am trying Chevron Supreme Dino.
Bill

---

What was your last car model, year and engine specs? Not a very impressive result for using Mobil 1.

 

[Bill Williams]

rgiles,

My last car was a 1995 Saturn SW1 with the 1.9
4 cly engine & 5 speed Tranny. Now I know a lot of these engines used oil so I am not putting all the blame on Mobil 1,it's just that it used less when I added Dino oil.

Other than oil use that Saturn was by far the best car I ever had,40 MPG and NEVER any problems.

Bill