Why did Ford go from 5W20 to 5W30?

[DoubleWasp]

I'm not strictly a thick oil pusher. Even though I use 0/40 in my Navigator, I'll tell anyone in the world that there is no reason on the planet aside from VVT clattering to use a 5/20 oil. I used conventional 5000-mile 5/20 for almost 11k miles in my Navigator, proceeded to continue carrying overloads and drive like a demon, and my 5.4's UOA reflected that the engine cared not what was done to it.

I'll say straight out that where the 5.4 3V with properly operating valvetrain and oil pump is concerned, you can get absolutely no benefit at all from either thickening the oil, or using a synthetic. Money down the toilet.

My Porsche? Spec 0w-40 Castrol(even though I could have done 5w-50)
Lexus? Spec 0w20 TGMO
Benz? Spec 0w40 Mobil/Castrol
Every diesel I have has spec oil viscosity, unless spec is no longer available
etc, etc etc

So where do I play around with viscosity? Usually engines that are known to have received an improper oil spec (marine, it happens a LOT), where an engine is being used under extreme circumstances, or where the engine's manufacturer has played around with viscosity by condition or model year.

Sometimes, there is nothing to be had by changing the vis. Sometimes, changing the quality or durability of the oil is what gives improvement, rather than vis. But in any case, I am always looking for a result.

Sometimes those results can be seen in a UOA. Sometimes those results can be seen looking at the parts of an engine spread out all over a table. Sometimes those results are more obvious in that something that should have died no longer fails.

So I am not necessarily a thick oil person. I am a person who understands all too well that sometimes a manufacturer enslaves themselves to an oil spec ideal for some unknown reason, and it does not work out.

 

[KL31]

I agree with Sonofjoe. I'll add that brake pads and better stopping power is far more important for your car's survival than oil viscosity. I'm thankful that I changed my wrx pads and rotors prior to the truck driver that didn't look where he was going. Car written off but brakes and tyres being very new and good quality made sure I was only left with hurt feelings about my car and not injury.

 

[BufordTJustice]

I'm not sure if anybody read the previously linked info. I'll cut and paste here:

Many people have provided valuable information on the proper weight oil to run in our modular engines so I thought I'd condense it into a single post.

The bottom line is, we really shouldn’t be running 5w20. The switch from 5w30 in 1999 to 5w20 in 2001 (on identical engines) had nothing to do with wear or reliability issues and everything to do with Ford saving a few bucks by meeting CAFE standards. At the time Ford was fined $5.50 for every 1/10th of a MPG under the target average of 27.5 MPG for every vehicle manufactured. To help meet the target Ford changed from 5w30 to 5w20 and was able to improve mileage by 1/16th of a MPG and meet their goals.

Here is a quote from one of Fords Product Design Engineers:

Mike Riley, Product Design Engineer with Ford Motor Company:

Quote:
"Moving to 5w20 was driven by ... CAFE requirements. The company believes the switch to lighter viscosity 5w20 oils will reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 190,000 metric tons a year and reduce US fuel consumption by over 21,000,000 gallons a year."



While most people understand the main function of oil is to protect the engine, Ford's only concern in that respect is that the engine survives the warranty period. I especially appreciate Scott Whiteheads insight on this topic. He worked for Ford testing different oils in modular engines and here is what he had to say:

Scott Whitehead - Engine Development Systems Engineer, Ford Motor Company:

Quote:
"I've seen the dyno testing. I've probably looked at several hundred engines disassembled and spread out on inspection tables. And I've been involved in testing to resolve issues where varying the oil viscosity was part of the test. Please do not put 5w-20 or less into a mod motor. Please. This is especially true in 4v motors. 5W-30 is probably a good oil for the street with mixed temperatures."


Ford Racing Group apparently feels the same way:

FRPP Group:

Quote:
"DO NOT go back to using 5w-20"



Real world experience seems to back up the advice of these experts too. Some of the best data from the modular community has come from Nick McKinney:

Quote:
"I have said it a few times now, heavier oil has better protection especially in the cam bores. ---I get 2-3 sets of modular heads a week through here, and any lay person just from looking would pick the 500,000 mile cores run on 15W-40 diesel spec all their lives over the typical Mustang head run 50,000 miles on the light stuff"


http://forums.corral.net/forums/svt-dohc/1380619-oil-viscosity-dohc-ford.html

 

[BrocLuno]

I use light oil for hinge lube

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: BufordTJustice
I'm not sure if anybody read the previously linked info. I'll cut and paste here:

Many people have provided valuable information on the proper weight oil to run in our modular engines so I thought I'd condense it into a single post.

The bottom line is, we really shouldn’t be running 5w20. The switch from 5w30 in 1999 to 5w20 in 2001 (on identical engines) had nothing to do with wear or reliability issues and everything to do with Ford saving a few bucks by meeting CAFE standards. At the time Ford was fined $5.50 for every 1/10th of a MPG under the target average of 27.5 MPG for every vehicle manufactured. To help meet the target Ford changed from 5w30 to 5w20 and was able to improve mileage by 1/16th of a MPG and meet their goals.

Here is a quote from one of Fords Product Design Engineers:

Mike Riley, Product Design Engineer with Ford Motor Company:

Quote:
"Moving to 5w20 was driven by ... CAFE requirements. The company believes the switch to lighter viscosity 5w20 oils will reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 190,000 metric tons a year and reduce US fuel consumption by over 21,000,000 gallons a year."



While most people understand the main function of oil is to protect the engine, Ford's only concern in that respect is that the engine survives the warranty period. I especially appreciate Scott Whiteheads insight on this topic. He worked for Ford testing different oils in modular engines and here is what he had to say:

Scott Whitehead - Engine Development Systems Engineer, Ford Motor Company:

Quote:
"I've seen the dyno testing. I've probably looked at several hundred engines disassembled and spread out on inspection tables. And I've been involved in testing to resolve issues where varying the oil viscosity was part of the test. Please do not put 5w-20 or less into a mod motor. Please. This is especially true in 4v motors. 5W-30 is probably a good oil for the street with mixed temperatures."


Ford Racing Group apparently feels the same way:

FRPP Group:

Quote:
"DO NOT go back to using 5w-20"



Real world experience seems to back up the advice of these experts too. Some of the best data from the modular community has come from Nick McKinney:

Quote:
"I have said it a few times now, heavier oil has better protection especially in the cam bores. ---I get 2-3 sets of modular heads a week through here, and any lay person just from looking would pick the 500,000 mile cores run on 15W-40 diesel spec all their lives over the typical Mustang head run 50,000 miles on the light stuff"


http://forums.corral.net/forums/svt-dohc/1380619-oil-viscosity-dohc-ford.html


It makes sense to me...........I bought into the 5W20 hype for a while, then I made the change back to 5W30 and I'm not looking back.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: BufordTJustice
I'm not sure if anybody read the previously linked info. I'll cut and paste here:

Many people have provided valuable information on the proper weight oil to run in our modular engines so I thought I'd condense it into a single post.

The bottom line is, we really shouldn’t be running 5w20. The switch from 5w30 in 1999 to 5w20 in 2001 (on identical engines) had nothing to do with wear or reliability issues and everything to do with Ford saving a few bucks by meeting CAFE standards. At the time Ford was fined $5.50 for every 1/10th of a MPG under the target average of 27.5 MPG for every vehicle manufactured. To help meet the target Ford changed from 5w30 to 5w20 and was able to improve mileage by 1/16th of a MPG and meet their goals.

Here is a quote from one of Fords Product Design Engineers:

Mike Riley, Product Design Engineer with Ford Motor Company:

Quote:
"Moving to 5w20 was driven by ... CAFE requirements. The company believes the switch to lighter viscosity 5w20 oils will reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 190,000 metric tons a year and reduce US fuel consumption by over 21,000,000 gallons a year."



While most people understand the main function of oil is to protect the engine, Ford's only concern in that respect is that the engine survives the warranty period. I especially appreciate Scott Whiteheads insight on this topic. He worked for Ford testing different oils in modular engines and here is what he had to say:

Scott Whitehead - Engine Development Systems Engineer, Ford Motor Company:

Quote:
"I've seen the dyno testing. I've probably looked at several hundred engines disassembled and spread out on inspection tables. And I've been involved in testing to resolve issues where varying the oil viscosity was part of the test. Please do not put 5w-20 or less into a mod motor. Please. This is especially true in 4v motors. 5W-30 is probably a good oil for the street with mixed temperatures."


Ford Racing Group apparently feels the same way:

FRPP Group:

Quote:
"DO NOT go back to using 5w-20"



Real world experience seems to back up the advice of these experts too. Some of the best data from the modular community has come from Nick McKinney:

Quote:
"I have said it a few times now, heavier oil has better protection especially in the cam bores. ---I get 2-3 sets of modular heads a week through here, and any lay person just from looking would pick the 500,000 mile cores run on 15W-40 diesel spec all their lives over the typical Mustang head run 50,000 miles on the light stuff"


http://forums.corral.net/forums/svt-dohc/1380619-oil-viscosity-dohc-ford.html



BOOM

 

[Ammofirst]

Down goes Frazier.

 

[Ifixyawata]

OMG YOU GUYS THIS IS TOTALLY THE END FOR THIN OILS!!!!!

/s

 

[dblshock]

bought an '03 Accord new changed by the manual with HG 5/20 by 60k was adding oil, very common with these CAFE ILSAC grades.

 

[Triton_330]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
5.4 3V

Are you sure your Navigator's engine isn't the 4V? My mother has a 2005 Aviator 4.6L - the Lincoln Intech which is the 4V version of the modular, of which I am certain. I don't know whether or not Lincoln used a 4V 5.4L in the Navigators, which is why I'm asking you. (My F-150 is 2V because it's a 2001, and I know Ford switched to the 3V 4.6L and 5.4L in 2004).

EDIT: Ohhh okay, I just looked at the Wiki page. They DID use a 4V 5.4L from 1999-2004, but it was replaced with the 3V 5.4L in 2005 on up.

Originally Posted By: BufordTJustice
I'm not sure if anybody read the previously linked info. I'll cut and paste here:

Many people have provided valuable information on the proper weight oil to run in our modular engines so I thought I'd condense it into a single post.

The bottom line is, we really shouldn’t be running 5w20. The switch from 5w30 in 1999 to 5w20 in 2001 (on identical engines) had nothing to do with wear or reliability issues and everything to do with Ford saving a few bucks by meeting CAFE standards. At the time Ford was fined $5.50 for every 1/10th of a MPG under the target average of 27.5 MPG for every vehicle manufactured. To help meet the target Ford changed from 5w30 to 5w20 and was able to improve mileage by 1/16th of a MPG and meet their goals.

Here is a quote from one of Fords Product Design Engineers:

Mike Riley, Product Design Engineer with Ford Motor Company:

Quote:
"Moving to 5w20 was driven by ... CAFE requirements. The company believes the switch to lighter viscosity 5w20 oils will reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 190,000 metric tons a year and reduce US fuel consumption by over 21,000,000 gallons a year."



While most people understand the main function of oil is to protect the engine, Ford's only concern in that respect is that the engine survives the warranty period. I especially appreciate Scott Whiteheads insight on this topic. He worked for Ford testing different oils in modular engines and here is what he had to say:

Scott Whitehead - Engine Development Systems Engineer, Ford Motor Company:

Quote:
"I've seen the dyno testing. I've probably looked at several hundred engines disassembled and spread out on inspection tables. And I've been involved in testing to resolve issues where varying the oil viscosity was part of the test. Please do not put 5w-20 or less into a mod motor. Please. This is especially true in 4v motors. 5W-30 is probably a good oil for the street with mixed temperatures."


Ford Racing Group apparently feels the same way:

FRPP Group:

Quote:
"DO NOT go back to using 5w-20"



Real world experience seems to back up the advice of these experts too. Some of the best data from the modular community has come from Nick McKinney:

Quote:
"I have said it a few times now, heavier oil has better protection especially in the cam bores. ---I get 2-3 sets of modular heads a week through here, and any lay person just from looking would pick the 500,000 mile cores run on 15W-40 diesel spec all their lives over the typical Mustang head run 50,000 miles on the light stuff"


http://forums.corral.net/forums/svt-dohc/1380619-oil-viscosity-dohc-ford.html

The only reason my 5.4L is running 5w-20 is because I got it free from the Pennzoil program that GenaFishbeck ran with us fellas here on the forums. I've always run 5w-30 previously. Now I know I was right in doing so. I don't think one or two OCIs of 5w-20 is the end of the world, though, so long as I run 5w-30 (or 0w/5w-40) after I'm done with my freebie oil.

 

[dblshock]

when your pushing through the atmosphere 75-80 that's too much for a 20, should have a warning on the lable.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: AnarchyX
I recall in the early aughts they were one of the first, or few, car companies that required 5W20 for their cars. Now they seem to have gone to where most everyone has always been, namely 5W30.

Anyone know why the change?

1) The ECOBOOST makes the vehicles faster to finally outrun the 5W20 POLICE.
2) Ford got tired of seeing all of the 5W20 VS 5W30 posts here at BITOG.
3) See replies # 1 & 2.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: BufordTJustice
I'm not sure if anybody read the previously linked info. I'll cut and paste here:

Many people have provided valuable information on the proper weight oil to run in our modular engines so I thought I'd condense it into a single post.

The bottom line is, we really shouldn’t be running 5w20. The switch from 5w30 in 1999 to 5w20 in 2001 (on identical engines) had nothing to do with wear or reliability issues and everything to do with Ford saving a few bucks by meeting CAFE standards. At the time Ford was fined $5.50 for every 1/10th of a MPG under the target average of 27.5 MPG for every vehicle manufactured. To help meet the target Ford changed from 5w30 to 5w20 and was able to improve mileage by 1/16th of a MPG and meet their goals.

Here is a quote from one of Fords Product Design Engineers:

Mike Riley, Product Design Engineer with Ford Motor Company:

Quote:
"Moving to 5w20 was driven by ... CAFE requirements. The company believes the switch to lighter viscosity 5w20 oils will reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 190,000 metric tons a year and reduce US fuel consumption by over 21,000,000 gallons a year."



While most people understand the main function of oil is to protect the engine, Ford's only concern in that respect is that the engine survives the warranty period. I especially appreciate Scott Whiteheads insight on this topic. He worked for Ford testing different oils in modular engines and here is what he had to say:

Scott Whitehead - Engine Development Systems Engineer, Ford Motor Company:

Quote:
"I've seen the dyno testing. I've probably looked at several hundred engines disassembled and spread out on inspection tables. And I've been involved in testing to resolve issues where varying the oil viscosity was part of the test. Please do not put 5w-20 or less into a mod motor. Please. This is especially true in 4v motors. 5W-30 is probably a good oil for the street with mixed temperatures."


Ford Racing Group apparently feels the same way:

FRPP Group:

Quote:
"DO NOT go back to using 5w-20"



Real world experience seems to back up the advice of these experts too. Some of the best data from the modular community has come from Nick McKinney:

Quote:
"I have said it a few times now, heavier oil has better protection especially in the cam bores. ---I get 2-3 sets of modular heads a week through here, and any lay person just from looking would pick the 500,000 mile cores run on 15W-40 diesel spec all their lives over the typical Mustang head run 50,000 miles on the light stuff"


http://forums.corral.net/forums/svt-dohc/1380619-oil-viscosity-dohc-ford.html


/endthread_knockout_punch

I'm now wondering if my newly purchased PP 5w30 with a 10.3 viscosity, and assumed HTHS of 3.0, is enough for my van in a severe service towing application, or should I dip into my T5 10w30 stash (HTHS 3.5).

 

[zeng]

Quote:
I'm now wondering if my newly purchased PP 5w30 with a 10.3 viscosity, and assumed HTHS of 3.0, is enough for my van in a severe service towing application, or should I dip into my T5 10w30 stash (HTHS 3.5).

Select Hths 3.5.
There is no such concept as 'too thick' an oil in mechanical equipments.

 

[Ammofirst]

How about running gear oil for my next oci : 75w-90 or 75w-140 ?

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: Ammofirst
How about running gear oil for my next oci : 75w-90 or 75w-140 ?


There is a law of diminishing returns on the thick scale.

 

[Bailes1992]

In the UK manufacturers don't give consumers options when it comes to oil. Usually only recommend one oil and one oil only.

My Focus specifically states I can ONLY use a WSS-M2C913D (which is a 5w30 A5/B5) oil or if I can't find one I can use another 5w30 A5/B5 oil but for top offs ONLY.

I've moved away from this specification. Reason being I have a DPF and the specified oil is high SAPS. Also, 913D or A5/B5 oil is always a THIN *w30 and finally my UOA's shows that if I use an oil with a higher HTHS I have significantly less wear materials so now I use an A3/B4 oil with SAPS

However it's horses for courses. There's plenty of examples on here of engines that have done several hundred thousand miles on *w20 and they're immaculate under the covers.

Now my Mother drives a Suzuki Jimny. My Mother is very light footed and the car only really does low speed town driving so I quite happily use a thin *w30 with a low HTHS and I feel it's all that's required. I'd use a *w20 if I could get hold of one cheap enough but they're rare and expensive in the UK.

My Wife on the other hand has a lead right foot and drives her car to within an inch of it's life so she gets a *w40 A3/B4 oil for maximum protection.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Ammofirst
How about running gear oil for my next oci : 75w-90 or 75w-140 ?


A 75w-90 is roughly the same viscosity as a 5w-40.

A 75w-140 is close to a 20w-50.

 

[bigj_16]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Ammofirst
How about running gear oil for my next oci : 75w-90 or 75w-140 ?


A 75w-90 is roughly the same viscosity as a 5w-40.

A 75w-140 is close to a 20w-50.
Yes, but gear oil has a lot of sulfur, among other things. I know this is tongue in cheek, but someone will try to do it, if they read this. I am sure someone will post on here, and say they have been running 75w-140 in thier Prius and it has gone 600,000 miles of taxi service and averaged 80 mpg while doing so.

 

[Scdevon]

It's hard to believe that Direct Injection dilutes engine oil more than port injection in the real world. Wouldn't a more efficient injection method result in less unburned fuel in the oil as well as fewer emissions, better drivability, etc, etc,? Is Ford using DI as an excuse to quietly step off of the 5W-20 Bandwagon?