How I miss the the old days....

[turtlevette]

We'll have to see if these obd2 vehicles will be practical to maintain to 40+ years. My 02 burban gives a service soon light a few times a year that eventually resets. But last year it gave an O2 fail. Replaced the O2 sensor now it says its too slow. I can see these ageing computer vehicles being a nightmare. There's someone in the next thread talking about junking a BMW because the abs module is on the frits. A modern reliable car.

Some people love old vehicles because it makes them feel something. 95% of people spend their time in a boring efficient, practical and reliable box that looks like all the other boxes.

Of course I won't agree with someone who has a list of ecoboxes as long as my arm in their sig.

 

[supton]

I have to say, I rather like having clean air to breathe. I'd not like to be out on a nice bicycle ride and not suffer when classics go rolling through. That's not to say all old cars smell, but a good number do.

I have to wonder, just how many of these "more reliable" cars are still out there on the roads today. Today their increased value will keep them restored; but "back in the day", when the issues piled up, they were junked. Truth is, regardless of generation, by the 10-20 year mark a good amount will be gone, accident or repair cost exceeding value.

Hey, I felt something with my '99 Camry, I'll have you know. I did struts and timing belt in my dirt driveway (rained on me at one point). Made me feel like a broke teenager again, reliving my youth.

 

[brave sir robin]

A properly set up and functioning Quadrajet works very well. No problems cold starting etc. Its when you start messing with them they give problems. That all being said I would rather have a good multi port fuel injection set up on the Buick. The dream for my car is an all aluminum fuel injected Big block from TA performance in around the 550hp level coupled to the new 10 speed transmission used by GM and a limited slip rear end. I already have disc brakes out front and poly bushings in the suspension with Bilstein shocks all around. I like the big ol bench seat up front so going all out in the handling department isn't gonna work.

If I had a Wildcat instead I would go with the same fuel injected engine but tied to a 6 speed manual transmission 4.11 gears
a sleeperish pro touring set up suspension and brake wise.

 

[Traction]

I like the handling safety of new cars, but you can't buy a car now with the all-out raw feel, sound, smell, styling, etc. of a hard running C3 that you have to learn to drive to survive going fast. Pretty exciting, and scary compared to new cars with all the electronic driving assistance including driving itself.
For something fun, and different, the next fast driving experience I'm going to try is indoor electric Kart racing.
I've had many fast, fun, scary, cars like a C2, 3 C4's, and currently a C5, and a 55 Chevy with C4 suspension under construction.

 

[jeepman3071]

I have no problem working on older cars. They are pretty simple, parts are cheap, I have access to a garage with air tools, I have weekends off, and my commute is fairly short at the moment.

I do completely understand why people buy modern econoboxes though. Many people don't have the tools, know-how, garage space, or time to tinker with older vehicles. My GF's apartment complex won't allow you to change the oil never mind pop off a tire or two in the parking lot.

 

[ls1mike]

You do know that in cars like my WS6 you can turn off traction control. ABS is always functional. It has no torque management.

In the Caprice you can turn off Traction Control and Stabilitrak which gets rid of torque management.

I can get it sideways, smoke rolling off the tires, chirping second anytime I want. Then I can turn that stuff on when I don't
feel like playing

 

[exranger06]

I like older cars, but I can still look at them objectively and realize that newer cars are vastly superior in almost every way. I prefer cars that are older, but not too old, like something from the late-80's to the mid-90s. Those are becoming more "classic" as time goes on. They're way more modern and reliable with fuel injection, rack and pinion steering, power brakes, and modern suspension, but they're not too modern in that they don't have lane-assist, traction control, TPMS, etc. That's why I daily drive a 25 year old car, and why my project/hobby car is also from the mid-90s. The Accord is different enough that I'm not driving just another modern blob car, but it's modern enough to be reliable and comfortable for everyday use. And even though it's not a fast car and it was just your average boring car back in the day, it's surprisingly fun to drive. These are the cars I grew up with, so I have the same kind of nostalgia for them as someone who grew up in the 60s or 70s has for cars of that era. Cars from the 60s and 70s are before my time though. I look at them the same way you would look at a Model T or something from the 1930s. They're cool in their own way, and you can appreciate them, but there's no nostalgic connection to them. And it's easier to recognize performance deficiencies when there's no cloud of nostalgia preventing you from seeing them.

One day I will have a fast, fun car, but right now it's not in the cards. Just because I mostly have "ecoboxes" now doesn't mean I don't want a fast car or have no interest in them. And the only other "ecobox" I have is the CR-V, which I needed (not wanted, but needed) to haul the kids around. At least I got one with a manual transmission so it's at least somewhat fun to drive. The Crosstrek is the wife's car. It's slow and boring, and I don't really like driving it, but hey, it's what the wife wanted. I don't know how anyone could consider a 17 MPG Ranger or a 12 MPG Bronco an "ecobox."

 

[brave sir robin]

I do not miss points at all. I much prefer the Crane Xri ignition module I installed a couple years back. Drum brakes are also not something I miss. Discs are substantially easier maintenance wise and better performing (on the front less so on the rear). Materials in general are light years better today as well. The interior of my Pathfinder was immaculate before I started using it as garage for my bike and the Buick. No tears or rips anywhere. I'm sure the factory clock on the Buick probably failed within the first year of its life. things like that do not really happen these days.

I actually prefer some older tech though. An easy to get to external voltage regulator being one of them. Electrical simplicity with everything being wired directly instead of through a central computer makes diagnosis easy. Old school lacquer paint seems a lot more durable and easier to work with than todays acrylic stuff (though not as fancy looking).

Gasket tech from back then is terrible. I'm constantly futzing around with anything oil and gasket related on my car but nothing like that with modern stuff.


Theres an old saying.
"Driving a slow car fast is more fun than driving a fast car slow" (works for bikes too)

Todays cars are so capable you can never really use it on the street without getting into serious trouble or being reckless. If it wasnt for electronic aids you wouldnt ever be able to floor it and being able to go pedal to the metal is where a lot of the fun comes from.


@exranger06
I agree that mid 90s tech (especially Japanese makes) are the happy medium between reliability, visceral thrill, technology, fuel economy and safety.

 

[brave sir robin]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
You do know that in cars like my WS6 you can turn off traction control. ABS is always functional. It has no torque management.

In the Caprice you can turn off Traction Control and Stabilitrak which gets rid of torque management.

I can get it sideways, smoke rolling off the tires, chirping second anytime I want. Then I can turn that stuff on when I don't
feel like playing


I had a 97 SS 6 speed Camaro. It was very good looking (arctic white paint black top peanut butter leather interior) and that LT1 with de restricted "two on the left" exhaust made all the right sounds but it was still not as fun to drive as my 2002 SE-R specV Sentra on the street. The interior constantly rattled and the ride was somehow simultaneously stiff and wobbly with the chassis visibly flexing and twisting side to side which is something even my Electra doesn't do. Every few years I think about picking up another project 4th gen but it the idea last about a day then goes away when I start remembering everything about it.


"Daisy" looked just like this except tan leather interior

 

[flinter]

This is why I am glad I brought my 2017 Hyundai Elantra SE Value Edition.....naturally aspirated engine, multi port injection. NO direct injection, traditional 6 speed auto trans, NO CVT and NO turbo!

 

[turtlevette]

There's a thread about a guy fussing with a bad code from his seat belt retractor. That's how I want to spend my weekends. Troubleshooting ghost codes from a hundred different possible failure points. Spending the day at the dealer to have a faulty air bag replaced. And they're all faulty. Computers and electronics aren't designed to last 40 years.

What's going to happen with these ageing airbags? Computer nonvolitile memory has a limited number of read write cycles. PC boards eventually corrode unless they have a special environmental coating.

 

[Garak]

Heck, even the old Audi was fun with plenty of WWII surplus solder and electronics labelled "Made in West Germany."

 

[supton]

Come on now--you're stretching. Computers have been in cars since what, 1987, and I mean across the board (and a good number installed even prior to that). So it's probably a safe bet that they all have whatever coating they need.

Got any way to prove that any of your vehicles was designed to go 40 years?

Non-volatile memory can have upwards of a million write cycles. Depends upon who made it, and how.

As for faulty airbags... dunno about all states but at least in some, one can just ignore the light and/or remove the bags, if one is worried. Automotive butchery and whatnot can still be applied, if one wanted.

 

[steve20]

Originally Posted By: flinter
This is why I am glad I brought my 2017 Hyundai Elantra SE Value Edition.....naturally aspirated engine, multi port injection. NO direct injection, traditional 6 speed auto trans, NO CVT and NO turbo!



Soooooo.that makes your vehicle--a---- 2017 Hyundai Elantra Sports Edition Value Edition----?

Steve

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: steve20
Originally Posted By: flinter
This is why I am glad I brought my 2017 Hyundai Elantra SE Value Edition.....naturally aspirated engine, multi port injection. NO direct injection, traditional 6 speed auto trans, NO CVT and NO turbo!



Soooooo.that makes your vehicle--a---- 2017 Hyundai Elantra Sports Edition Value Edition----?

Steve
The SE is different from the Sport trim. On another, happier note, he forgot to add Eco and Limited.

 

[Cujet]

I am not into ancestor worship.

I remember being on the side of the road with a wet distributor cap once or twice every week. And I remember carburetor ice locking my throttle partially open, requiring me to shut the key off to slow down. I also remember bias-ply tires squealing around corners, wearing out quickly, while providing terrible braking performance. And the ice inside my door, failing the door latch and driving to work holding the passenger door closed with a claw hammer in my right hand. The list goes on and on.

I don't claim modern engines are "the best" , however, they are quite good and very reliable. I do enjoy my Ecoboost F150, which is not only way faster than my identical V8 powered F150, but the ecoboost gets 5MPG more.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette


Computers and electronics aren't designed to last 40 years.

Computer nonvolitile memory has a limited number of read write cycles. PC boards eventually corrode unless they have a special environmental coating.


Not true. The electronics are rather reliable and the boards are conformally coated.

Also, I don't see any vehicle short of an airplane as being worth keeping 40+ years. 20-25 years is a good outside limit for all but the most exotic cars.

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: Cujet


Also, I don't see any vehicle short of an airplane as being worth keeping 40+ years. 20-25 years is a good outside limit for all but the most exotic cars.
This will be an unpopular opinion.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: Cujet


Also, I don't see any vehicle short of an airplane as being worth keeping 40+ years. 20-25 years is a good outside limit for all but the most exotic cars.
This will be an unpopular opinion.


Soccer moms need a reliable appliance.

One major thing I wanted to point out. The "modern" car crowd go find the car and driver and road and track times to prove that old cars are slow. These times are right off the showroom floor and not even the simplest timing adjustments have been done. Old cars have been tweaked and tuned and modified to get a lot more performance out of them.

LS1 Mike thinks only LS cars get head and can upgrades, I guess.

 

[HouseTiger]

(sometime in the future)

" I remember grandpa telling me that they actually had to go to special places, I think he called it gas stations. Anyway, they had to take a hose or something and stick it in the side of the car and put this liquid in a tank to keep it running. He also talked about having to change oil or something in the engine because it used gasoline, whatever that is, and had a whole bunch of stuff collect that needed to be drained every now and then. "

" Yeah, my grandpa used to work on those antiques. Said they had a gazillion parts like spark plugs, filters everywhere, hoses, liquids for everything, and made noise when the power supply unit would be running. He used to have to take those power units apart and repair them along with a box of gears that he said would change so the power supply wouldn't have to run as hard. "

" No thanks, I'll keep the solar aerofoil, thankyouverymuch. "