How I miss the the old days....

[turtlevette]

You're still not getting it. The old cars feel faster. They feel exciting. Its about what makes your heart beat quicker. Quarter mile times and top speeds are numbers on paper and don't reflect those indescribable factors.

I can make my c3 faster than a lot of new cars with aftermarket parts. You should know super Chevy is full of articles on putting together cheap powerful junkyard engines. SB1 and 454 engines not just LS. You can get 496 from a 454 with a stroker kit under $1000. Yes I could put together a package that would outrun most stuff for a fraction of the price of the outrun car.

I mean, come on. Someone mentioned a scat pack challenger. What's that? A 60,000 car?. I could buy a crate 502 or 572 if I were lazy for a fraction of the cost and be right with them.

Explain why my c3 runs low 13s? Its supposed to be a 15 second car, right? And you know how cheap I am. I spent maybe 500 bucks on stuff to do it. A used 4:56 rear for 100 and a pair of l98 aluminum for 200 something

 

[ls1mike]

That is all great. I am going to go out on a limb here and say you have not driven a heads and cam LS car. Any heads and Cam LS car, that includes conversions. It is the reason even old hot rodders such as yourself do the conversion. Not only does it "feel" fast. It is fast. I have ridden in some old 10 and 11 second cars. They don't feel any faster than my 11 second WS6. The difference is my A/C works and I am not messing carbs, points, lash adjustment or drum brakes.

Since when is a 13 second car fast?

 

[SilverSnake]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I mean, come on. Someone mentioned a scat pack challenger. What's that? A 60,000 car?. I could buy a crate 502 or 572 if I were lazy for a fraction of the cost and be right with them.


Wrong. I paid $37,000 out the door for my new 2016 Charger Scat Pack. Could have paid less for a new Challenger with a 392. Had to pay more for the Charger since they were harder to find. I had a 77 C3 and I loved the car. However, by every possible measure it pales in comparison to the Charger.

 

[gmh101357]

Im waiting for somebody to say a 70 Cuda rag top sucks and would take a challenger over the 70 model
Some of you guys need to watch the movie "vanishing point"

 

[supton]

I wouldn't say a convertible "sucks" but I know they aren't my cup of tea. So I'd rather have anything else that is a hardtop.

Actually, does anyone cruise around anymore? I remember doing that in the early 90's but I'm not sure if that died or not. You know, drive up and down the main drag, seeing who was hanging out where. Anything to be anywhere but home.

 

[gmh101357]

We have a "cruise" night in out Mustang club....More or less and get together to eat, drink, drive etc.....and show off you stang....most in the club are 60 and over.....we try and get some younger folks to join.....But like a guy I know thats 35....told me he would love to but his wife would kill him plus he has student loans to pay....homework to help with etc. He told me you old guys have all the money for toys....he asked me do i have a house payment? no.....do you get up at 5:30 am to goto work....no.....do you fight traffic and come dragging in at 6:00 pm.....no.
Like I told him I worked when i was young too.....saved up money so I could retire at 50 and have some fun before I die

 

[brave sir robin]

Originally Posted By: gmh101357
Im waiting for somebody to say a 70 Cuda rag top sucks and would take a challenger over the 70 model
Some of you guys need to watch the movie "vanishing point"


The E-bodies were outdated pigs back in the day when new and the current Challenger is even more porky. This is coming from a guy that drives a car thats 19ft long and 7ft wide. Parked next to the new Challenger or Charger my Electra is 6" lower wider and two feet longer yet somehow looks dare I say........"chiseled" in comparison. They are great performance cars (if you are ok with automatics) but are slab sided and boring inside. The Mustang and the Camaro you can tell that the designers at least tried to contain the bulk but with the Mopars.........not so much. I really REALLY do not like them but Dodge seems to sell a bunch so thats good.

Id take the 70 Cuda and sell it to some old fool with more money than sense huehuehue

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
That is all great. I am going to go out on a limb here and say you have not driven a heads and cam LS car. Any heads and Cam LS car, that includes conversions. It is the reason even old hot rodders such as yourself do the conversion. Not only does it "feel" fast. It is fast. I have ridden in some old 10 and 11 second cars. They don't feel any faster than my 11 second WS6. The difference is my A/C works and I am not messing carbs, points, lash adjustment or drum brakes.

Since when is a 13 second car fast?


Have you driven a big block vette? I don't want to mess with 20 year old efi with corroding and fretting connections, oxygen sensors, cam position sensors, crank position sensors, mass airflow, funky electronic throttles that have deadspots and a cazillion other things that can go wrong with LS engines. A carb always works. An HEI is maintenance free. I worked at a microprocessor relay manuf and know how electronics can act posessed at times. Simple is good.

And those 4 gen camaros and trans ams are terrible looking cars. I think they were trying to make them look like jags.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: brave sir robin
) but are slab sided and boring inside. The Mustang and the Camaro you can tell that the designers at least tried to contain the bulk but with the Mopars.........not so much.


Come on. I bet there's at least 3 degrees of curvature in those doors. There's about 40 of those at the car show and nobody pays much attention. When I pull in, I'm the only one with a smokey ta. There might be 3 or 4 2nd gen trans ams total.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
That is all great. I am going to go out on a limb here and say you have not driven a heads and cam LS car. Any heads and Cam LS car, that includes conversions. It is the reason even old hot rodders such as yourself do the conversion. Not only does it "feel" fast. It is fast. I have ridden in some old 10 and 11 second cars. They don't feel any faster than my 11 second WS6. The difference is my A/C works and I am not messing carbs, points, lash adjustment or drum brakes.

Since when is a 13 second car fast?


Have you driven a big block vette? I don't want to mess with 20 year old efi with corroding and fretting connections, oxygen sensors, cam position sensors, crank position sensors, mass airflow, funky electronic throttles that have deadspots and a cazillion other things that can go wrong with LS engines. A carb always works. An HEI is maintenance free. I worked at a microprocessor relay manuf and know how electronics can act posessed at times. Simple is good.

And those 4 gen camaros and trans ams are terrible looking cars. I think they were trying to make them look like jags.


I have driven one. I have driven few big block cars. No doubt they make gobs of torque. Can't argue that point, rest of the car sucked.

Carbs always works...hahahhaha I had a 1971 K5 for 10 years, a Carbed Dodge Omni and a 1978 Camaro. Carbs are the devil. You are not helping your case. I have not had to mess with any of that stuff you mention, but carb and HEI? Yep. I fix submarines for a living and I am electronics tech by trade. EFI trumps the Carb all the time.

The LS engine and management is simple if you understand it. Even it you don't it very reliable.

Hey beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You don't like the 4th gens that is fine. Most of the time you be looking at taillights anyway.

 

[ls1mike]

I almost forgot the 4 barrel motor home. No carbs for me thanks.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
That is all great. I am going to go out on a limb here and say you have not driven a heads and cam LS car. Any heads and Cam LS car, that includes conversions. It is the reason even old hot rodders such as yourself do the conversion. Not only does it "feel" fast. It is fast. I have ridden in some old 10 and 11 second cars. They don't feel any faster than my 11 second WS6. The difference is my A/C works and I am not messing carbs, points, lash adjustment or drum brakes.

Since when is a 13 second car fast?


Have you driven a big block vette? I don't want to mess with 20 year old efi with corroding and fretting connections, oxygen sensors, cam position sensors, crank position sensors, mass airflow, funky electronic throttles that have deadspots and a cazillion other things that can go wrong with LS engines. A carb always works. An HEI is maintenance free. I worked at a microprocessor relay manuf and know how electronics can act posessed at times. Simple is good.

And those 4 gen camaros and trans ams are terrible looking cars. I think they were trying to make them look like jags.


I have driven one. I have driven few big block cars. No doubt they make gobs of torque. Can't argue that point, rest of the car sucked.

Carbs always works...hahahhaha I had a 1971 K5 for 10 years, a Carbed Dodge Omni and a 1978 Camaro. Carbs are the devil. You are not helping your case. I have not had to mess with any of that stuff you mention, but carb and HEI? Yep. I fix submarines for a living and I am electronics tech by trade. EFI trumps the Carb all the time.

The LS engine and management is simple if you understand it. Even it you don't it very reliable.

Hey beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You don't like the 4th gens that is fine. Most of the time you be looking at taillights anyway.


Something that "just works' is my EFI engines. Doesn't matter if it's 100 or -30, or if I'm at 5000 feet or sea level - they always start right up (and don't stall 45 times) in the morning. Get good mileage. My electronic ignition is quite a bit more reliable than having points and condenser ignition any day of the week!

I don't trust carburetors. I understand how they work, but , to me, EFI and electronic ignition is so much more simple

 

[ls1mike]

Look I don't hate all cars. I like them and I understand why you miss them. But today offerings are just better.

Looks are subjective, but performance and reliability are not.

 

[ls1mike]

I meant I don't hate old cars...

 

[OVERKILL]

I grew up wrenching on stuff far older than anything being discussed in this thread. Carbs, points, condensers, 6V ignitions with positive ground, solid core plug wires and engines with no oil filters. Antique boats taught me to appreciate modern technology. My grandfather's best friend's pride and joy was a 1920's Minette launch with a Van Blerk I4 that was somewhere in the neighbourhood of 500ci. It had two distributors, gravity oiling, cast iron pistons, no oil pan (just a drip tray) and you had manual controls for both fuel and spark advance. Driving it was an art and it got freshened every season. It was also the most unreliable boat I've ever had the pleasure of driving and being around. Our '31 Chris-Craft with the 312 swap was an absolute gem in comparison, and even it had its moments.

Going from that to EEC-IV Ford where stuff just "worked", particularly with Mass Air... It was a whole new world.

That was part of the appeal of the Fox Body cars IMHO. You had modern fuel injection that not only worked well, but could readily handle modifications (particularly in MAF form) but it was still stuffed in that horribly unrefined car that didn't have ABS, traction control, torque management....etc. It was sketchy and unpredictable, but still really bloody reliable, kind of a bizarre hybrid, blending old and new.

An LS7 swap into a C3 would be incredible

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Going from that to EEC-IV Ford where stuff just "worked", particularly with Mass Air... It was a whole new world.
An LS7 swap into a C3 would be incredible

And any more power would just expose the shortcomings of the poor Vette Chassis from the dark ages.

My aged 4 door luxury car can absolutely kill a C3 in any performance metric. Add to that the incredibly reliable platform that requires very little maintenance and repair. My first wife had a C3 when we met. It was a great sexy car to look at, but there was no excitement for me. Add to their shortcomings that thing had zero safety features except seatbelts. A scary car at speed, and you'd probably never get past 130-140 anyway.

I can only imagine the condition our persistent "old performance advocate" keeps his C3 in based on the threads he's posted.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I grew up wrenching on stuff far older than anything being discussed in this thread. Carbs, points, condensers, 6V ignitions with positive ground, solid core plug wires and engines with no oil filters.

Yes, my dad did NOT reminisce about the "good old days" of automotive work, considering those were the days he did a lot of work in a shop for off season farm employment. He did not remember any of those things fondly, nor monogrades or seasonal thermostat changes. He could survive with a carb, but absolutely despised old school ignition.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
That is all great. I am going to go out on a limb here and say you have not driven a heads and cam LS car. Any heads and Cam LS car, that includes conversions. It is the reason even old hot rodders such as yourself do the conversion. Not only does it "feel" fast. It is fast. I have ridden in some old 10 and 11 second cars. They don't feel any faster than my 11 second WS6. The difference is my A/C works and I am not messing carbs, points, lash adjustment or drum brakes.

Since when is a 13 second car fast?


Have you driven a big block vette? I don't want to mess with 20 year old efi with corroding and fretting connections, oxygen sensors, cam position sensors, crank position sensors, mass airflow, funky electronic throttles that have deadspots and a cazillion other things that can go wrong with LS engines. A carb always works. An HEI is maintenance free. I worked at a microprocessor relay manuf and know how electronics can act posessed at times. Simple is good.

And those 4 gen camaros and trans ams are terrible looking cars. I think they were trying to make them look like jags.


I've driven a big-block Vette - my father has/had a 67 Vette with a 427 big block. Dad passed away 10 years ago and my mom still has the Vette. She keeps saying she's going to sell it, but she's never gotten around to it. Some people have asked why don't I take it - I reply I don't want it. I've driven it many times and it doesn't do a thing for me. Stepping on the gas is fun, but everything else about it just sucks. Terrible steering, terrible braking, terrible ride quality, terrible gas mileage, terrible reliability, no creature comforts whatsoever, I could go on and on. If I want a performance car, I'd want something that actually performs. Which means something made in this century.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^All excellent points. Everyone who is into old cars needs a weekender. That is an old car to go to the car shows with. I have had and still own a few of these.

Anyone who has driven those old big block IRS cars knows how squirrely they get under full throttle. Being intimidated by the car because it is obnoxious to drive hard is not fun for many folks.

 

[jeepman3071]

The only real thing I like about old cars is the styling. Forget everything else. Brakes sucked, carbs and ignition are finicky, etc.

My friend's dad restores antique cars for a living, and his daily driver is a '66 Chevy pickup. It is completely restored but the engine is a modern 5.3 V8. The truck looks great but also has plenty of power and reliability. If I was to restore an older vehicle like that, it would have a modern drive train and brakes. He has other cars with their factory drive trains, but they aren't daily driven or taken on long trips.


There is also the safety factor. Everyone seems to be driving distracted these days and the older cars simply don't have the crumple zones. My friend's dad (same guy that restores cars) got hit in his aircooled VW Beetle a few years ago, and what would've been a minor accident in something like a Corolla sent him to the hospital and totaled the car. He dailys the '66 Chevy truck but has been thinking more and more about getting something safer.