Grille shutters and their benefits
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Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
AC condenser has to be real happy having airflow shut off to it while it's trying to do its job. I'd love to see the high-side pressures on a hot car with a cold engine while the AC is battling to cool that thing down with its intake choked by shutters.
That's true. I would hope they'd open when the A/C is on. Otherwise wouldn't the compressor have to run more, thus using more fuel then the shutters would ever save?
no, the compressor wouldn't run more. it would run less but you'd have less cooling effect from the AC aswell.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
AC condenser has to be real happy having airflow shut off to it while it's trying to do its job. I'd love to see the high-side pressures on a hot car with a cold engine while the AC is battling to cool that thing down with its intake choked by shutters.
That's true. I would hope they'd open when the A/C is on. Otherwise wouldn't the compressor have to run more, thus using more fuel then the shutters would ever save?
no, the compressor wouldn't run more. it would run less but you'd have less cooling effect from the AC aswell.
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Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
AC condenser has to be real happy having airflow shut off to it while it's trying to do its job. I'd love to see the high-side pressures on a hot car with a cold engine while the AC is battling to cool that thing down with its intake choked by shutters.
At least on my car, A/C use causes the shutters to open some. It's obvious when they open since the front end gets a little twitchier and instant fuel economy drops.
For the Focus ST's that have shutter issues, that should be fixed under warranty.
AC condenser has to be real happy having airflow shut off to it while it's trying to do its job. I'd love to see the high-side pressures on a hot car with a cold engine while the AC is battling to cool that thing down with its intake choked by shutters.
At least on my car, A/C use causes the shutters to open some. It's obvious when they open since the front end gets a little twitchier and instant fuel economy drops.
For the Focus ST's that have shutter issues, that should be fixed under warranty.
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Are you talking about the pieces of cardboard folks jamb into grill with their vehicles instead of addressing cooling system issues in the winter?
Why not both?
A carefully calibrated grille front lets the thermostat live in the middle of its range. While the engine coolant temp stays the same, other heat inside the engine compartment isn't getting sucked out as fast. And if one parks in a garage there's more heat to give off to the ambient air inside there which helps prevent overnight cold soaks.
Are you talking about the pieces of cardboard folks jamb into grill with their vehicles instead of addressing cooling system issues in the winter?
Why not both?
A carefully calibrated grille front lets the thermostat live in the middle of its range. While the engine coolant temp stays the same, other heat inside the engine compartment isn't getting sucked out as fast. And if one parks in a garage there's more heat to give off to the ambient air inside there which helps prevent overnight cold soaks.
Originally Posted By: stranger706
On the Focus if you take the grill shutter motor out, it will throw a check engine light. So most people remove the shutters but leave the motor plugged in to keep the engine light off.
Can the dash light/DTC be 'written out' of the ECM with the Mountune/Cobb Accessport software/devices, IF one wanted to totally remove the motor??
On the Focus if you take the grill shutter motor out, it will throw a check engine light. So most people remove the shutters but leave the motor plugged in to keep the engine light off.
Can the dash light/DTC be 'written out' of the ECM with the Mountune/Cobb Accessport software/devices, IF one wanted to totally remove the motor??
I'd have to assume that with all the sensor data available, that the shutters would be scheduled to suit the needs of engine cooling, intercoolers, and environmental control systems precisely. It would be interesting to have a look at the code, or even some streaming data for commanded position.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Can the dash light/DTC be 'written out' of the ECM with the Mountune/Cobb Accessport software/devices, IF one wanted to totally remove the motor??
I would think so, I think that is one of the workarounds available. A lot of guys have aftermarket intercoolers and the first part of the install is to remove the grill shutters & motor for the additional space. And I know they are not all driving around with the grill shutter code setting all the time.
I do know most of the tunes for the ecoboost motors set the shutters to 100% open all of the time, if you happen to leave them installed. Heat soak can still be an issue after a good pull on these things and the last thing you want is the shutters closing off the airflow.
Originally Posted By: JetStar
I'd have to assume that with all the sensor data available, that the shutters would be scheduled to suit the needs of engine cooling, intercoolers, and environmental control systems precisely. It would be interesting to have a look at the code, or even some streaming data for commanded position.
You would think they would not be intrusive to the intended use of the car but on the STs they block off the intercooler as well as the a/c and radiator creating major heat soak, pulled timing and reduced power. Not to mention the risk of overheating if they do not function properly. They are quite flimsy as well you can see the pictures above. You can push down in the middle of each individual shutter, bend it in half with one hand and it pops off the track. It took me 30 or 40 seconds to remove all 12 from my car. I understand the need to squeeze mpg out of a vehicle but they could have left them off the performance version.
Can the dash light/DTC be 'written out' of the ECM with the Mountune/Cobb Accessport software/devices, IF one wanted to totally remove the motor??
I would think so, I think that is one of the workarounds available. A lot of guys have aftermarket intercoolers and the first part of the install is to remove the grill shutters & motor for the additional space. And I know they are not all driving around with the grill shutter code setting all the time.
I do know most of the tunes for the ecoboost motors set the shutters to 100% open all of the time, if you happen to leave them installed. Heat soak can still be an issue after a good pull on these things and the last thing you want is the shutters closing off the airflow.
Originally Posted By: JetStar
I'd have to assume that with all the sensor data available, that the shutters would be scheduled to suit the needs of engine cooling, intercoolers, and environmental control systems precisely. It would be interesting to have a look at the code, or even some streaming data for commanded position.
You would think they would not be intrusive to the intended use of the car but on the STs they block off the intercooler as well as the a/c and radiator creating major heat soak, pulled timing and reduced power. Not to mention the risk of overheating if they do not function properly. They are quite flimsy as well you can see the pictures above. You can push down in the middle of each individual shutter, bend it in half with one hand and it pops off the track. It took me 30 or 40 seconds to remove all 12 from my car. I understand the need to squeeze mpg out of a vehicle but they could have left them off the performance version.
Sounds like Ford made them cheaply. The two largish shutters on my Cruze are pretty beefy. So, an implementation issue rather than a bad idea.
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
AC condenser has to be real happy having airflow shut off to it while it's trying to do its job. I'd love to see the high-side pressures on a hot car with a cold engine while the AC is battling to cool that thing down with its intake choked by shutters.
That's true. I would hope they'd open when the A/C is on. Otherwise wouldn't the compressor have to run more, thus using more fuel then the shutters would ever save?
no, the compressor wouldn't run more. it would run less but you'd have less cooling effect from the AC aswell.
So then the user would then crank the blower up, or the temp down.
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
AC condenser has to be real happy having airflow shut off to it while it's trying to do its job. I'd love to see the high-side pressures on a hot car with a cold engine while the AC is battling to cool that thing down with its intake choked by shutters.
That's true. I would hope they'd open when the A/C is on. Otherwise wouldn't the compressor have to run more, thus using more fuel then the shutters would ever save?
no, the compressor wouldn't run more. it would run less but you'd have less cooling effect from the AC aswell.
So then the user would then crank the blower up, or the temp down.
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
AC condenser has to be real happy having airflow shut off to it while it's trying to do its job. I'd love to see the high-side pressures on a hot car with a cold engine while the AC is battling to cool that thing down with its intake choked by shutters.
That's true. I would hope they'd open when the A/C is on. Otherwise wouldn't the compressor have to run more, thus using more fuel then the shutters would ever save?
no, the compressor wouldn't run more. it would run less but you'd have less cooling effect from the AC aswell.
So then the user would then crank the blower up, or the temp down.
I'd expect the shutters to open before that would happen. Since AC condenser pressure is a trigger for the cooling fans, and not even Ford would be daft enough to keep the shutters closed with the cooling fan on.
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
AC condenser has to be real happy having airflow shut off to it while it's trying to do its job. I'd love to see the high-side pressures on a hot car with a cold engine while the AC is battling to cool that thing down with its intake choked by shutters.
That's true. I would hope they'd open when the A/C is on. Otherwise wouldn't the compressor have to run more, thus using more fuel then the shutters would ever save?
no, the compressor wouldn't run more. it would run less but you'd have less cooling effect from the AC aswell.
So then the user would then crank the blower up, or the temp down.
I'd expect the shutters to open before that would happen. Since AC condenser pressure is a trigger for the cooling fans, and not even Ford would be daft enough to keep the shutters closed with the cooling fan on.
Until there's one of those failures which never happen.
I'm not looking for any more stuff to complicate cars, but as far as complexity goes this is simple stuff. I could live with it, I suppose.
Maybe I'd remove the lowest louvres in front of the intercooler and go from there...
Maybe I'd remove the lowest louvres in front of the intercooler and go from there...
Originally Posted By: stranger706
I understand the need to squeeze mpg out of a vehicle but they could have left them off the performance version.
Yes, if I decide to get the Fiesta ST, they are gone as soon as I pull out of the dealer's lot, and into an adjacent parking lot!!
IF I am that worried about fuel mileage, I will just drive it a little easier, or short shift it around town, as these things make decent torque fairly low in the rev range.
I understand the need to squeeze mpg out of a vehicle but they could have left them off the performance version.
Yes, if I decide to get the Fiesta ST, they are gone as soon as I pull out of the dealer's lot, and into an adjacent parking lot!!
IF I am that worried about fuel mileage, I will just drive it a little easier, or short shift it around town, as these things make decent torque fairly low in the rev range.
In the old days we used to put cardboard in front of radiators and take it out for summer. Just make it so it can't shut for the summer
I like the concept. We have plenty of cold days up here where it'd be great to have zero airflow over the engine, at least until it heated up. Yet not have to remember to remove cardboard on freak warm weather days. Beginning of this week it was below freezing, yesterday it was 70F on the drive home, and I think snow is possible this weekend.
My old Jetta, on a good cold winter day, didn't need the radiator at all. Just trying to stay warm inside it would cause the coolant gauge to drop when driving in town. I believe a number of other lightly-loaded diesels did that too.
My old Jetta, on a good cold winter day, didn't need the radiator at all. Just trying to stay warm inside it would cause the coolant gauge to drop when driving in town. I believe a number of other lightly-loaded diesels did that too.
Yes, I would keep them IF there was a driver controlled switch for the motor operating them.
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