ZRX 1200 Mobil 1 10w40 4T, 5345 miles

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Here you go... 5,345 miles on M1 10w40 4t and this time it held grade solidly in the shared sump ZRX 1200. 12.5:1 pistons added 20,000 mi ago. Previous two OCI's are noted as 20w50 V-Twin and 10w-40 4T.

A few notes from me to share with you guys: Oil level had dropped toward the end to the lower part of the sight glass however that equates to 200-300 cc's. I had the pulsar cover off a number of times swapping different timing advance rotors while tuning the bike and lost a bit of oil each time I removed that. As such there were many runs up to five digit rpm figures (10,000-10,500rpm) during this oci over the course of the last year. Overall the bike barely uses any oil given the length of the oci.

Disappointed aluminum is up. However if this is a clutch basket issue as was mentioned by a member here last time, my question would be at what point do I go in and replace it as the bike has over 71,000 mi on it now. Surprised Blackstone doesn't consider that as a potential source for the aluminum, they are still thinking pistons.

Really like this oil it has done well.
 

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Bonz

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Hey eddy21, you know the ZRX well. What’s your thought, makes sense to me it’s a clutch basket issue as was shared by sunruh in my last thread from the previous report. I tend to go with that given the good health of the engine and consistent wear reports overall for the past 15,000 miles with JE pistons. I looked back and it’s not 20,000 miles on them yet.

For the collective: What is the usual issue that causes clutch basket wear? I’ve read the basket can be carefully filed down to remove wear marks which would be a source of aluminum (don’t know if that’s the issue or not, but makes sense give 71,000+ miles on the original) and start fresh with a smooth surface. But don’t want to do that if it’s just going to happen again, and possibly even more quickly, I would go with a new basket or a good used one.

I’m not noticing any issues with the clutch however if something has degraded over time it might be something I wouldn’t catch because it’s a slow process. Clutch pull seems like it always has been.
 
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Bonz

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I can agree with you there, with respect to the raw numbers. What is the reality of 3 or 4 ppm difference over ~5,0000 miles with respect to the margin of error that it becomes significant?
 
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I can agree with you there, with respect to the raw numbers. What is the reality of 3 or 4 ppm difference over ~5,0000 miles with respect to the margin of error that it becomes significant?
Well, we try different oils to see the effect on the engine and hands down, in your case, out of 4 UOAs the 10/40 oils have 20% more iron in the UOA and the 20/50 - 20% less. I would look at 20% as significant, actually to me its a glaring difference which I haven't really seen in many UOAs.
I think 20% is way outside the margin of error. But one could run the oil again, but darn, 4 UOAs and well ...

(ps, still trying to get one more long run of a few hundred miles in, if its not going to happen soon, going to send in the M1)
 
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Bonz/Howard,
next post please redact (ie magic marker) all of the stoners comments as well. it lessens the confusion....of their stupid comments.

lets start with the good:
flash of 420 is great!!! i mean there is NO fuel in that sample. and all of yours except for 1 - 395, also so none. great fuel control
this also allowed us to see a real value for susvis and at 72.1 its clearly still 40wt. so again very good
silicon of 9 for 5k miles is also very good. however it too is up +20%

the bad:
lets start with the glaring obvious ERROR on the stoners part...unit location of 2 on lead when you have never had a 2.
how in blue sky can you have an average of 2 when you have NEVER had over 1? simple math seems hard. harder for the stoners apparently.
iron is up, but is that because silicon was also up...actually by more?
same goes for copper...yes its up % wise big...but is 7 really a big number? and again how do you get a unit location average of 9 when you have NEVER had an 8?
yes aluminuim is up...but a few more bangs on that left lever can cause that in a heartbeat. this again is where the stoners are moronic in their statements. YOU the rider cannot duplicate your previous ride. so there is no true way to compare them on an elemental scale .... trends yes comparison no

now, i personally, have had several uoa with alum higher than yours...on 1/100th the miles. i have a 49,48 and a 46 but i also
have a 8 on the same bike as well.
for me it was all clutch use

my advise is this:
before spending any money on another uoa...pull the right side cover and feel the clutch tangs. if a fingernail catches you have solved
your mystery!

Steve
 

Bonz

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Thanks for the two previous posts, easy peasy to pull the clutch cover and check for the wear marks and there are no flies on the M1 20w50 VTwin at all.

Not labeled, analysis from 11/12/17 is Mystik JT8 15w50, and the far right analysis from 7/2/16 is Castrol conventional 20w50 4T MC specific. M1 20w50 shines pretty well in comparison with respect to the mileage on each oil.

I run pods filters which may contribute a higher silicon reading. However maybe more noteworthy is each time I have the pulsar cover off swapping timing advance rotor, I use a bit of Yamabond/permatexs grey to seal the cover. With the cover being off many times this last OCI and using the sealer, that may contribute as well?
 
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do NOT worry about a silicon of 9
you dont want to see what mine is ;) i have several over 20...in 1/100th the distance...so do NOT worry about a 9
how much would you freak out if you saw silicon 900 on a report? lol ... now think about 2900!!! ;)
and i run a prefilter over my filter. dirt is dirt that contains a lot of sand!
i run a pod filter too...but mines a scotts stainless steel mesh ... i wash it out with carb cleaner and 120psi it goes back in ... its lifetime

10.5....twist MORE!!!
i push my Interceptor more than that

the ONLY thing i would think about is the clutch basket
 

Bonz

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Lol, I have 11,500 rpm available, but not quite what you do, I gather you have an 800 iteration of the Interceptor? ZRX1200 stock rev limit is 10,600 rpm. With a ZX11D ECU grafted onto the bike and the double valve springs from any ZX11 or donor ZZR1200, it allows the higher rev limit via the ECU and allows it safely via the double springs. The main reason this mod was developed was for the racetrack. Power with (ZZR1200 cams in the head) peaks around 9,800 rpm vs around 8,500 rpm for the stock cammed ZRX1200, or with Yoshimura spec cams Peaks around 10,500 rpm. The main advantage of the ZX11D ECU and double springs is on the race track for over-rev and to allow shifting past the power peak so the next shift drops back into the peak of the power band. A side benefit brings a more aggressive timing advance curve that sharpens throttle response especially down low and mid-range, and there are a number of different advance timing rotors made by a fellow on the ZRX forum that allow for fine tuning the baseline timing and response with the ZX11 ECU. So, in reality I don’t race and the only real advantage for me is the timing curve for the crisper response, and the valves being in better control even without exceeding the stock rev limit isn’t a bad thing.

Only mentioned the silicon because it was up, and I have a good idea it may be from the sealer, but to use full disclosure that pods can contribute in some folks eyes to higher silicon, but I am not convinced of that, thus “may contribute”.

FWIW, I have ZX11/ZZR1200 CVK40 carbs adapted to the bike which gives a nice gain in power and response as well.

With “respect” to Blackstone, the earlier reports that have fallen off the report had elevated numbers with respect to copper and lead. The averages are not indicative of just reports we can see, so the current averages are in line. My feeling is the bike was babied by original owner and it wasn’t until I got it that the bike started to wear in and gave the early elevated readings in the reports we can’t see.
 
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redline starts at 11,700 on my Interceptor800...i just went in the garage and looked to verify
redline on my yz250f is a low 14,000

how many reports have fallen off?
and yes that maybe true that it was babied before you got it
 

Bonz

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I bought the bike with 21,000 miles. 5 reports have fallen off, first report was 13 copper/ 4 lead. Second report was 27 copper/3 lead. Third report 14 copper/4 lead. Fourth report 7 copper/1 lead, fifth report 5 copper/1 lead.

More or less, metals other than aluminum have come down and remain comfortable for my tastes given the longer oci's that have been run recently.
 
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ok so not only copper but lead

if you can affort it i would run the m1 20w50
of course id recommend 15w40 or 20w50 anyday over 10w40
 

Bonz

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ok so not only copper but lead

if you can affort it i would run the m1 20w50
of course id recommend 15w40 or 20w50 anyday over 10w40
I totally agree, I wanted to be different and run what I thought was a pretty good oil with respect to most elements but it's clear that 20w50 is the way to go.
 
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as i have written in many posts over the last 16 years here on bitog, unless you are sponsored by a oil company and are require to run a certain line of oils...the hedo's of 15w40 and 20w50 should be what you are using!
 

Bonz

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as i have written in many posts over the last 16 years here on bitog, unless you are sponsored by a oil company and are require to run a certain line of oils...the hedo's of 15w40 and 20w50 should be what you are using!
Shift quality falls off in my experience with the 15w40 HDEO’s around 2500-3000 miles. No doubter on that. I can run M1 20w50 V twin or M1 10w40 4T for over 5,000 miles or go half of that with an HDEO. The OCI in the far right column dated 7/2/16 was Castrol 20w50 dino 4T MC specific. Had gotten down to a high 40w with the flashpoint of 405°F. Sharing that simply to show it’s not a fuel issue that lowered the viscosity. Wear numbers other than aluminum which we have discussed is most likely the clutch basket, were nominally the same ppm as the M1 VTwin 20w50 that went almost twice as long.

15W40 conventional is nixed because of shift quality falling off, Conventional 20w50 at least the Castro variety is nixed because it showed the same wear over half the distance. I did an OCI in there with Valvoline conventional 20w50 motorcycle oil however did not have that one tested. Ran it about 2500 miles, can’t recall about shift quality but there’s nothing I recall that says it wasn’t at about the same point in needing to be changed as any other conventional oil I have run in the ZRX.

When I look at the value of disposing oil half as often and maintaining shift quality with good protection, synthetic has proven to carry the day for me.
 
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1st ... as i have written upteen times....friends dont let friends use castrol ;) unless it was the GC green...and thats not been around for years now.

at $14 a gal for srt 15w40 and 2500mi ... your m1 would need to only cost 28 and go the full 5k...which it has shown to do
thats IF you can get it for 28 a gal...7 a qt is pretty cheap...buy all you can!!! ;)

what you have learned ... and what i did in my 1st 3-4years of testing is that: use what works in YOUR bike!
what are you willing to pay for what you get in return. in 50mi my used oil is worthy of an old lawnmower and thats about it.
when the amsoil hotline tells you to go no more than 5hrs on it...HARD PASS
motul and maxima are awesome...but at 10+ for a Litre ....again HARD PASS
again ... *** MY *** situation ... the results do not out weight the costs
but my results mimic what happens in others just over a longer time period on a NONrace bike

again if you can afford the oil that gives you the longest period of great shifting...do it!
none of the oils will cause an issue with the function of your motor....its all about clutch and shift feel in the amount of time you want to do oci's and for how much money!

steve
 

Bonz

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Lol, on “friends don’t let friends use Castrol”. I can understand that the economies of scale slightly favor doing the oil changes twice as often with a conventional oil like we are discussing. And I appreciate you acknowledging use what works. With that said... Then I am using twice as much oil which needs to be recycled, I go through the hassle of changing the oil twice as often, and I will be disposing of filters twice as often. To me the PITA factor wouldn’t offset any type of small monetary gain or justify putting twice as much used oil back into the recycling system. In any case, I won’t be going back to a 15w40 HDEO of any flavor. The bike has shown the best wear numbers with M1 20w50 VTwin and there isn’t a conventional 20w50 I would choose to use again or take a chance on just maintaining shift quality past 2500-3000 miles when all things are considered.
 
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on my race bike its 3 bolts to change the oil...drain bolt and 2 filter bolts
on my interceptor its removing half of the plastic to even get to the oil drain bolt - yes major pita but thats what gives the sport bikes their look
 
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