ZRX1200 Mobil 1 10w40 4T, 5001 miles

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Jun 5, 2013
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Colorado, USA
Here we go again! Aluminum is still up, haven't done any work on the clutch with respect to seeing if it is the clutch basket that is causing it. No oil use, no issues otherwise so I will stick with it being a clutch basket.

Iron has typically been up, a tad higher this time. My instinct says it's the cams. I've transplanted ZZR1200 cams into this bike, and they have a known issue with respect to pitting on the intake side (even in the donor ZZR1200 bike itself). I had the valve cover off for a check/adjustment last summer and the intake lobes are ever slowly showing more pitting. Exhaust cam is fine. Rockers are smooth as a babies butt, as are the lobes other than the pitting indentations.

The ZRX sprays cam lobes from the rocker itself (no oiling holes in the lobes). Intake side sprays oil on the lobe as it begins rotation after contact with the rockers. Exhaust side sprays oil at the end of rotation right before contact with the rocker. This has been part of the speculation for the intake cam wear combined with metallurgy.

Copper is fairly consistent in my opinion as well, this engine has always had it. Any thoughts?

Viscosity is lower, even with a high flashpoint. A query/thought to the collective... last summer a wire in the harness to the stick coils shorted. I was 20 miles from home running on only two cylinders, and felt if I stopped it might not start back up. I was pretty sure what happened based on the feel of the bike, and it was confirmed when I found the wire rubbed. For 20 miles I ran in a lower gear at a higher RPM to get home and wonder if the fuel the bike ingested for those 20 miles in the inactive cylinders would affect viscosity long-term, even though fuel content was low and flashpoint was high at time of the analysis. Because viscosity has not been this low on the last three changes with 10W40 4T (and lower flashpoints) makes me think shearing wouldn't be the issue. The past two analysis have been 10w40 4T, previous to those two it was one run of 20w50 VTwin, before that (4603 mile OCI) was the first analysis of 10w40 4T.


Enjoy!


EAF5886C-7EF5-4927-92E5-1984CE7061BF.jpeg
 
if the flash is truly 430 then you have NO fuel.
sure its not 68.28 to be in grade, but i doubt it ever will be on a 5k sample with 10w40

lets look at just the "supposed" real numbers
alum is either that clutch basket or piston skirt

iron could be rings but most likely its tranny gears

copper up without tin or lead is interesting. only place i can think of that without the others is a crush washer

actually if you look at silicon....is that gaskets or is that sand? which would be more likely to explain a tiny bit the iron and alum

look at the fingers on the clutch basket...otherwise no need to worry...its a very good report for 5k on a big ninja ;)
 
Thanks, sunruh. The bike runs pod filters vs an airbox, so IMO the silicon has been present in higher amounts than other uoa's I see on the forum, but less than others. Yes, the type of silicon could help explain the alum. But my instinct says it's the clutch basket as was pointed out in my other UOA's. As well, I had the head off last summer and used copper sealant spray on the head gasket when reinstalled and also some silicone sealer around the ignition rotor cover as I need to take that off to reset the cams. Those could both contribute to higher copper and silicon. Previously I hadn't thought about the copper but I bet that's where a contributing factor is from. Also had to head off at the end of the 3200 mile OCI when the first copper "increase" occurred. A new head gasket had been on for only 5000 miles at that point (from installing ZZR1200 pistons, made it 11.0:1) then installed true high comp (12.5:1) pistons, so I reused it at that point as well. I've had really good success with that copper spray so I've saved close to 100 bucks a pop on the head gasket and it's worked fine.

Fuel has always been low, so that isn't surprising.
 
copper spray and silicon sealer would explain both ... even just a tiny bit would easily bump those number in the uoa.
so all thats left is the alum and we both agree it is probably the clutch basket ... so
 
copper spray and silicon sealer would explain both ... even just a tiny bit would easily bump those number in the uoa.
so all thats left is the alum and we both agree it is probably the clutch basket ... so
Lol, I should forget the oil analysis next time around, put the 30 bucks into a tank and a half of gas.

But damm, changed to Redline 20w50 this time around because I bought the stuff a while back and it's gotta get used sometime... Going to have to send the sample in. Just can't help myself.
 
Yes in 5000 miles. That would be correct, as has been the status quo for this bike over the last 20,000 miles. FWIW, Kawasaki has a 5000 mile OCI spec'd for the ZRX1200. As I re-read my post I see it may have sounded like doing a sample sooner.
 
Here we go again! Aluminum is still up, haven't done any work on the clutch with respect to seeing if it is the clutch basket that is causing it. No oil use, no issues otherwise so I will stick with it being a clutch basket.

Iron has typically been up, a tad higher this time. My instinct says it's the cams. I've transplanted ZZR1200 cams into this bike, and they have a known issue with respect to pitting on the intake side (even in the donor ZZR1200 bike itself). I had the valve cover off for a check/adjustment last summer and the intake lobes are ever slowly showing more pitting. Exhaust cam is fine. Rockers are smooth as a babies butt, as are the lobes other than the pitting indentations.

The ZRX sprays cam lobes from the rocker itself (no oiling holes in the lobes). Intake side sprays oil on the lobe as it begins rotation after contact with the rockers. Exhaust side sprays oil at the end of rotation right before contact with the rocker. This has been part of the speculation for the intake cam wear combined with metallurgy.

Copper is fairly consistent in my opinion as well, this engine has always had it. Any thoughts?

Viscosity is lower, even with a high flashpoint. A query/thought to the collective... last summer a wire in the harness to the stick coils shorted. I was 20 miles from home running on only two cylinders, and felt if I stopped it might not start back up. I was pretty sure what happened based on the feel of the bike, and it was confirmed when I found the wire rubbed. For 20 miles I ran in a lower gear at a higher RPM to get home and wonder if the fuel the bike ingested for those 20 miles in the inactive cylinders would affect viscosity long-term, even though fuel content was low and flashpoint was high at time of the analysis. Because viscosity has not been this low on the last three changes with 10W40 4T (and lower flashpoints) makes me think shearing wouldn't be the issue. The past two analysis have been 10w40 4T, previous to those two it was one run of 20w50 VTwin, before that (4603 mile OCI) was the first analysis of 10w40 4T.


Enjoy!


View attachment 100182
So what's the concensus? Mobil1 4T racing 10w40 good? Bought some for my 700R Yamaha Raptor ATV. Been using Maxima cycle oil. Pro Plus w/Ester Is very good stuff.
 
in my testing davido maxima is much better than mobil1 4t racing 10w40
but
maxima is very very spendy and if you dont run the miles/hours to make up the cost difference...is it really worth it?

i disagree with using either of them when it comes to the bang per buck
and when it comes to a squidpod like a raptor...just light your money on fire and at least get some heat out of it during the winter
 
Bonz... you keep great records and provide great narratives... it struct me that your actual gravity flow numbers in cSt suggest you covered more miles on 30 grades than either 40 or 50... but as Blackstone notes its not cause for alarm...

Mobil10w4020w50BonzC.jpg
 
What does your 30 grade end up at the end of a 5000 mi oil change? I'd like to see that posted that for comparison.

The one on the far right was Valvoline conventional 10w40 motorcycle oil. 1400 miles and it's lower than each of the 10w40 4T analysis at 5,000 +/- mi. Shift feel dropped off quickly thus the change.

Agree on the other two that dropped into the high 30 weight range (M1 10w40 4T) however those are 5,000 +/- mile ocis. The column to the right of the averages is the same 10w40 4T and it held grade for a longer oci than the other two. My feeling is this shows nothing is exact and with that length of oci in miles, not time, it's good performance from the oil.

However I haven't seen your preferred 10w30 run for a 5000 MI oci in a shared sump engine to be knowledgeable of where that oil ends up.
 
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What does your 30 grade end up at the end of a 5000 mi oil change?
My RC45 are the rigors of track miles whereas customers numbers are
street miles for comparison... I've ranked them according of staying in
grade which is between 9.3-12.5 cSt of gravity flow...
(note my RC45 and VFR800 sport gear driven cams to test shear stability of the oil)

1)5,520 miles 2009 1800 Gold Wing 5w30 Rotella Diesel 11.1 cSt
2)3,600 miles 1999 VFR800 5w30 Motul 300V 9.93 cSt
3)700 miles 1994 RC45 5w30 Mobil 1 Auto 9.87 cSt
4)641 miles 1994 RC45 10w30 Amsoil MC 9.61 cSt
5)1,240 miles 2021 ZX10RR 10w30 Kawie Oil 9.08 cSt

Bonz
You are King of the OCI data so it would be more interesting if you compared a 30 Grade...


RC45Cutaway.jpg
 
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Yes, OCD about OCI.

Gold Wings are notoriously easy on oil, no secret there.

VFR800 is nearer the bottom of a 30w after 3600 miles with a top-tier oil. A comparison to conventional chain driven cams would give a good picture. With your customers, one of them must have a sixth generation VFR that uses conventional chain driven cams for comparison? Has an analysis been done to show how much more the gear driven cams tax an oil? It makes sense, but to what degree does it put additional stress on the oil.

Thanks for the RC45 data. IMO track day use doesn't compare with respect to the street use most of us are talking about.

ZX10RR, track use or street use? It's been reduced to a 20w.
 
Mileage no. Engine longevity & performance yes!
Davido you sound like me... I also favor engine longevity and performance over mpg... its the reason why I employ a faster flowing 30 grade over the slower flowing 40 or 50... unnecessary oil drag not only creates additional heat but robs engine performance by reducing horsepower...

But I know what you are thinking what about my engine longevity???

Blackstone Labs has the data covering 35 years worth of racing and street motorcycle oil analysis which shows no significant differences in WEAR between the grades... in other words either our 30 grade or 40 or 50 grade will meet and exceed our longevity expectations...

Oil drag robs performance...

full-45634-35309-oiltubeviscositytest.jpg
 
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ZX10RR, track use or street use? It's been reduced to a 20w.

Marv is not only my neighbor but also my riding partner... he is in his 80s and rides a 94 ZX7R and 2020 ZX10RR both are homologated race bikes that he rides on the street but at race pace...

We don't think the Kawie 30 grade oil was there to begin with... so much for the factory fill being the best...


ScottRussellMarv2.jpg
 

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BLS, I'm starting to see where the oil drag robs horsepower concern arises from. What does your RC45 put down at the rear wheel for horsepower and torque? Also, what is the red line on your bike?
 
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