Would you use 0W30 instead of 0W20?

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1,308
Location
canada
I think if the bulk of your driving is under 30 minutes you may benefit from the use of 0w20 the oil most likely is not reaching operating temps. after it reaches the proper temps who knows the benefits you may or may not get with heavier weight oil ?
 
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17,239
Location
Upper Midwest
I think if the bulk of your driving is under 30 minutes you may benefit from the use of 0w20 the oil most likely is not reaching operating temps. after it reaches the proper temps who knows the benefits you may or may not get with heavier weight oil ?
But a thicker oil will warm up faster.
 
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7,923
Location
Hudson, NH
I remember reading posts that mentioned how at certain temperatures Mobil 1 5w30 was actually thinner than Mobil 1 0w30. So I don't think there is a perfect answer for an alternative. If it were me I would probably go with 5W30. It's available in every flavor everywhere.
 
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811
Location
sw ohio
Another thick vs. thin thread. Another one.

At least the new “Similar Threads” makes it so you don’t have to post up a big long list of previous discussions, it’s done right there for you.
Greetings-
after reading your response to this question (your many others, too) I have to ask: were you ever a high school hall monitor (or maybe the principal)? LOL
 

57_Chevy_Thunder

Thread starter
Messages
32
Location
Wyoming
Thanks again for the additional replies. Yes, sadly, the vast majority of this cars driving will be short trips well under 30 minutes. No doubt the 0W20 would be the totally logical choice overall. -and I will certainly be doing frequent oil changes for several reasons, not the least of which is to combat possible fuel dilution, crankcase condensation, possible corrosion and whatever other bad stuff occurs due to the cold weather short trips.
I still may consider using a xW30 during our few warmer months of the year, likely from April to October, just to give me a little more hot-viscosity wear protection for our occasional summer trips up the mountains, and the potential 2 or 3 hour freeway trip. I do have some Mobil 1 0W30, API Service SP, which I think I should use this summer, and then go back to the 0W20 for winter again. After that, for the following summer months, heck I might just as well use 5W30 just as our Impala and GMC use. Honestly, it would be nice to have all three vehicles using the same oil.

So, it looks like the bottom line remains, just as many of you have already stated, either 0W20 or 5W30 will work just fine.
AND whatever I do, I will always make sure it has a very high film strength test, no matter what flavor I choose.

I have actually found it difficult to even find 0W30 anywhere in our town, which may be a good reason to forget that one.

I will be glad to see the Gen3 licensed oils released, possibly later this year? -seems like the date is still not certain.
In the meantime, I will use oil with API Service SP, for this reason, as quoted from the api.org website: "
"Category "SP"-- designed to provide protection against low speed pre-ignition (LSPI), timing chain wear protection, improved high
temperature deposit protection for pistons and turbochargers, and more stringent sludge and varnish control."

Again thanks to all for helping me brainstorm this topic !!
 

57_Chevy_Thunder

Thread starter
Messages
32
Location
Wyoming
So Guys, that makes me ask this question: In your opinion, even with low viscosity numbers at 212F, (and very thin oil film), would an oil with extraordinarily high film strength still provide adequate protection? -like keep metal from touching metal in the crankshaft bearing journals.

Thanks
 
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17,239
Location
Upper Midwest
So Guys, that makes me ask this question: In your opinion, even with low viscosity numbers at 212F, (and very thin oil film), would an oil with extraordinarily high film strength still provide adequate protection? -like keep metal from touching metal in the crankshaft bearing journals.

Thanks
How do you measure the film strength of motor oil used in an ICE and how is it reported by the manufacturers and blenders?

If we’re going to discuss importance we need to be discussing numbers. Where do they come from? Where are you getting numbers that show one has “extraordinarily high” film strength?
 
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27,494
Location
PNW
So Guys, that makes me ask this question: In your opinion, even with low viscosity numbers at 212F, (and very thin oil film), would an oil with extraordinarily high film strength still provide adequate protection? -like keep metal from touching metal in the crankshaft bearing journals.

Thanks
If the "film strength" is working, then it means parts are already touching.

See the difference between "film thickness" (aka: minimum oil film thickness - MOTF) and "film strength" when anti-wear/anti-friction (AW/AF) additives take over when the film thickness fails to keep moving parts from rubbing together.

 

CKN

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6,468
Location
Utah
What i usually read around here - regarding oil - is that the manufacturer recommendation aren’t always in the best interest of the person who owns the vehicle...that the manufacturer needs to meet cafe regulations in this country and therefore their recommendations aren’t necessarily what’s best for your engine long term (for beyond a warranty in which you could probably run olive oil without worries).

And that in some countries that very same engine will run a different weight oil?

For instance, I own a 2016 Toyota Avalon with the V6...it says run 0w20 and I do. But I do wonder if a 5w30 would offer better protection. I’ve run into people that laugh when I tell them I use 0w20, as they say...I’d never run 0w20 in an engine. So, it is certainly something that people wonder about and debate.

I used to own a 2018 Silverado with the 5.3 and yet again, it required 0w20, yet on the forums there were a lot of people running 5w30. And I was experiencing some oil consumption on the 0w20 but never switched to the 5w30 before I traded it in with 50,000 miles on it.

Then there is the crowd that says to bump the viscosity up to 5w30 when you reach 100,000-120,000 miles because at that point your engine has experienced some wear and the tolerances are now greater. Which makes some sense to me. And then there are people now claiming they have gone over 200-300k on the 0w20 without issue. So, no one seems to know.
Do you know the qualifications (or lack thereof) of those who make those claims?
 
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17,214
Location
...
So Guys, that makes me ask this question: In your opinion, even with low viscosity numbers at 212F, (and very thin oil film), would an oil with extraordinarily high film strength still provide adequate protection? -like keep metal from touching metal in the crankshaft bearing journals.

Thanks


It has to be, otherwise we would be seeing large numbers of engines failing or wearing out early.

We are not seeing that.
 

57_Chevy_Thunder

Thread starter
Messages
32
Location
Wyoming
If the "film strength" is working, then it means parts are already touching.

See the difference between "film thickness" (aka: minimum oil film thickness - MOTF) and "film strength" when anti-wear/anti-friction (AW/AF) additives take over when the film thickness fails to keep moving parts from rubbing together.

ZeeOSix Thanks for sending the link to the machinery lubrication article !!
The two paragraphs titled Film Thickness and Film Strength are outstanding.
So as described, when film thickness alone cannot provide the needed protection, then we rely on film strength and boundary lubrication properties. (And of course several factors are involved with a good film strength, including good base stock and proper additives.)

And quoting a portion of that second paragraph, "When the base oil viscosity is insufficient to overcome metal-to-metal surface contact, the base oil and additive chemistry work together to create a surface protection mechanism."

So when film strength is working right, we avoid metal to metal contact.

That article provided the answer.

Thank you
for the excellent data. (I seem to remember other excellent articles by machinery lubrication.)
 
Messages
17,239
Location
Upper Midwest
So where are you getting these film strength numbers so a comparison can be made? How do you know which oils have an “extraordinarily high” film strength?

I’ve looked through many manufacturer PDS sheets and websites and I’ve never seen a value reported. Where do you get them? Maybe you missed my post earlier asking about that.

Considering the importance of film strength how come no manufacture approval, specification or license seems to require a minimum value? I’ve looked through the Afton Specification Handbook many times and I’ve never seen film strength as a requirement for anything. Am I just missing it?
 
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Messages
27,494
Location
PNW
ZeeOSix Thanks for sending the link to the machinery lubrication article !!
The two paragraphs titled Film Thickness and Film Strength are outstanding.
So as described, when film thickness alone cannot provide the needed protection, then we rely on film strength and boundary lubrication properties. (And of course several factors are involved with a good film strength, including good base stock and proper additives.)

And quoting a portion of that second paragraph, "When the base oil viscosity is insufficient to overcome metal-to-metal surface contact, the base oil and additive chemistry work together to create a surface protection mechanism."

So when film strength is working right, we avoid metal to metal contact.

That article provided the answer.

Thank you
for the excellent data. (I seem to remember other excellent articles by machinery lubrication.)
Glad you liked the article. Guess how I look at is that anytime two moving parts are touching there is contact. The first line of defense to prevent parts from contact and wear is the oil viscosity - the film thickness, which is dependent on the oil viscosity. The second line of defense is the AW/AF layer that comprises the film strength. That's basically what the Machinery Lubrication article says. The AW/AF layer is sacrificial, and even though it's trying to prevent wear when moving parts contact, there's still going to be some metal wear because parts are grinding on each other. I don't think any AW/AF additive is going to provide 100% wear protection.

So, as many here have come to realize, if you for example go up from a xW-20 to a xW-30 viscosity rating, then you're getting more wear protection headroom from more film thickness between the parts with the xW-30. All oils will have AW/AF additives to provide film strength, but if the parts don't touch as much in the first place because of the viscosity factor, then you're ahead of the wear game IMO.
 
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Messages
27,494
Location
PNW
Considering the importance of film strength how come no manufacture approval, specification or license seems to require a minimum value? I’ve looked through the Afton Specification Handbook many times and I’ve never seen film strength as a requirement for anything. Am I just missing it?

All unseen wear specs by consumers that are specified in the API wear testing done on running engines in order to certify an oil.

 
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