But a thicker oil will warm up faster.I think if the bulk of your driving is under 30 minutes you may benefit from the use of 0w20 the oil most likely is not reaching operating temps. after it reaches the proper temps who knows the benefits you may or may not get with heavier weight oil ?
Greetings-Another thick vs. thin thread. Another one.
At least the new “Similar Threads” makes it so you don’t have to post up a big long list of previous discussions, it’s done right there for you.
How do you measure the film strength of motor oil used in an ICE and how is it reported by the manufacturers and blenders?So Guys, that makes me ask this question: In your opinion, even with low viscosity numbers at 212F, (and very thin oil film), would an oil with extraordinarily high film strength still provide adequate protection? -like keep metal from touching metal in the crankshaft bearing journals.
If the "film strength" is working, then it means parts are already touching.So Guys, that makes me ask this question: In your opinion, even with low viscosity numbers at 212F, (and very thin oil film), would an oil with extraordinarily high film strength still provide adequate protection? -like keep metal from touching metal in the crankshaft bearing journals.
Do you know the qualifications (or lack thereof) of those who make those claims?What i usually read around here - regarding oil - is that the manufacturer recommendation aren’t always in the best interest of the person who owns the vehicle...that the manufacturer needs to meet cafe regulations in this country and therefore their recommendations aren’t necessarily what’s best for your engine long term (for beyond a warranty in which you could probably run olive oil without worries).
And that in some countries that very same engine will run a different weight oil?
For instance, I own a 2016 Toyota Avalon with the V6...it says run 0w20 and I do. But I do wonder if a 5w30 would offer better protection. I’ve run into people that laugh when I tell them I use 0w20, as they say...I’d never run 0w20 in an engine. So, it is certainly something that people wonder about and debate.
I used to own a 2018 Silverado with the 5.3 and yet again, it required 0w20, yet on the forums there were a lot of people running 5w30. And I was experiencing some oil consumption on the 0w20 but never switched to the 5w30 before I traded it in with 50,000 miles on it.
Then there is the crowd that says to bump the viscosity up to 5w30 when you reach 100,000-120,000 miles because at that point your engine has experienced some wear and the tolerances are now greater. Which makes some sense to me. And then there are people now claiming they have gone over 200-300k on the 0w20 without issue. So, no one seems to know.
So Guys, that makes me ask this question: In your opinion, even with low viscosity numbers at 212F, (and very thin oil film), would an oil with extraordinarily high film strength still provide adequate protection? -like keep metal from touching metal in the crankshaft bearing journals.
ZeeOSix Thanks for sending the link to the machinery lubrication article !!If the "film strength" is working, then it means parts are already touching.
See the difference between "film thickness" (aka: minimum oil film thickness - MOTF) and "film strength" when anti-wear/anti-friction (AW/AF) additives take over when the film thickness fails to keep moving parts from rubbing together.
Glad you liked the article. Guess how I look at is that anytime two moving parts are touching there is contact. The first line of defense to prevent parts from contact and wear is the oil viscosity - the film thickness, which is dependent on the oil viscosity. The second line of defense is the AW/AF layer that comprises the film strength. That's basically what the Machinery Lubrication article says. The AW/AF layer is sacrificial, and even though it's trying to prevent wear when moving parts contact, there's still going to be some metal wear because parts are grinding on each other. I don't think any AW/AF additive is going to provide 100% wear protection.ZeeOSix Thanks for sending the link to the machinery lubrication article !!
The two paragraphs titled Film Thickness and Film Strength are outstanding.
So as described, when film thickness alone cannot provide the needed protection, then we rely on film strength and boundary lubrication properties. (And of course several factors are involved with a good film strength, including good base stock and proper additives.)
And quoting a portion of that second paragraph, "When the base oil viscosity is insufficient to overcome metal-to-metal surface contact, the base oil and additive chemistry work together to create a surface protection mechanism."
So when film strength is working right, we avoid metal to metal contact.
That article provided the answer.
Thank you for the excellent data. (I seem to remember other excellent articles by machinery lubrication.)
Considering the importance of film strength how come no manufacture approval, specification or license seems to require a minimum value? I’ve looked through the Afton Specification Handbook many times and I’ve never seen film strength as a requirement for anything. Am I just missing it?
Thanks, yeah I've seen that document. Which one of those ASTM tests measures the film strength of a motor oil?All unseen wear specs by consumers that are specified in the API wear testing done on running engines in order to certify an oil.