Would you use 0W30 instead of 0W20?

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4,632
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Decatur AL USA
0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30 will likely all be fine depending on minimum oil sump temp when starting.

However I would stick to recommended grade if warranty coverage is a primary concern. If not use whichever let's you sleep well at night.
 
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27,494
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PNW
Thanks, yeah I've seen that document. Which one of those ASTM tests measures the film strength of a motor oil?
There isn't any of course ... you'll have to refer to the 540 Rat data. 😂 If you search that document for the word "film" and "wear" you'll see what I mean. Side note - the GF-6 API testing will now have some kind of cam-chain wear specs.

What that document shows is the max wear specs an oil must meet in order to be API approved under various API designations - and they probably aren't really that stringent (ie, allow more wear than most would think). Only way to know if 10 different oils that all have the same KV100 have better film strength over another would be to test them all in a real engine and measure the wear on various parts like the do in the API testing, but obviously the API doesn't go that far. Oil manufacturing companies do things like that in their own house testing labs.
 

57_Chevy_Thunder

Thread starter
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Wyoming
For some time, I have sensed an apparent/possible animosity between a few contributors to this thread and whoever it is that has the tech facts not myths web blog. If that is the case, then I will make myself very clear. Please do not draw me into any personal or professional issues between any such parties anywhere. I simply use various internet sources in my attempt to become more educated on any given topic, in this case motor oil for my own personal use. I hope to give all sources equal consideration and opportunity to prove validity of their data, rather than just opinions and biases.

It would be great it we had several independent sources from which to study and review the results of off-the-shelf motor oil quality and durability tests. And especially as it pertains to actual measurable repeatably provable film strength, since that seems to be almost like a hidden characteristic. -does the motor oil manufacturing industry classify it as proprietary information? To this date, I have found only that one source. It is apparent to me that he, (I assume) from the perspective of a mechanical engineer, became quite obsessed about 8 years ago with implementing or developing a legitimate method of testing and comparing. I know absolutely nothing more about it than what is documented on that blog.

I am just an ordinary consumer with no connections to anyone anywhere in any way shape or form associated with the motor oil industry. Several years ago, I became personally very interested in trying to compare various brands, grades, and qualities of commonly available motor oil. I very much enjoy the respectful replies and outstanding information and links to even more information that is being shared on this forum and others.

I hope that states my position respectfully, clearly, and accurately. Thank You.
 
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PNW
^^^ There have been a couple of big threads on this site that showed why 540 Rat's data has so large of error bars on it, and that you really can't draw any scientific conclusions from his ranked data. Like I mentioned in post #83, that would be the only accurate way of discerning wear characteristics of certain AW/AF additives all used in different oils all having the same KV100 viscosity. The "one-armed bandit" isn't a very accurate testing method. Even the ASTM test procedure say some of their test methods accuracy and repeatability isn't great. Of course, you have to pay for the paper, unless you can search and find one on the 'net that's free to view.

 
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17,239
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Upper Midwest
For some time, I have sensed an apparent/possible animosity between a few contributors to this thread and whoever it is that has the tech facts not myths web blog. If that is the case, then I will make myself very clear. Please do not draw me into any personal or professional issues between any such parties anywhere. I simply use various internet sources in my attempt to become more educated on any given topic, in this case motor oil for my own personal use. I hope to give all sources equal consideration and opportunity to prove validity of their data, rather than just opinions and biases.

It would be great it we had several independent sources from which to study and review the results of off-the-shelf motor oil quality and durability tests. And especially as it pertains to actual measurable repeatably provable film strength, since that seems to be almost like a hidden characteristic. -does the motor oil manufacturing industry classify it as proprietary information? To this date, I have found only that one source. It is apparent to me that he, (I assume) from the perspective of a mechanical engineer, became quite obsessed about 8 years ago with implementing or developing a legitimate method of testing and comparing. I know absolutely nothing more about it than what is documented on that blog.

I am just an ordinary consumer with no connections to anyone anywhere in any way shape or form associated with the motor oil industry. Several years ago, I became personally very interested in trying to compare various brands, grades, and qualities of commonly available motor oil. I very much enjoy the respectful replies and outstanding information and links to even more information that is being shared on this forum and others.

I hope that states my position respectfully, clearly, and accurately. Thank You.
That's a pretty big load of nonsense there, just like the "tests" that you're attempting to legitimize. There is nothing, and I repeat - nothing that is useful on that site. All of the oils he tests have the same result when properly analyzed and presented. No oil has a tested value that is statistically significant in order to garner a "ranking" and that's the problem. If that guy was actually honest in his analysis he'd conclude that the test is worthless and it produces no results that are valid. Of course he doesn't do that but instead publishes worthless results as if they have some sort of meaning.

That's only the first problem and it goes downhill after that. Like I said it has no value whatsoever.
 
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17,239
Location
Upper Midwest
I am just an ordinary consumer with no connections to anyone anywhere in any way shape or form associated with the motor oil industry. Several years ago, I became personally very interested in trying to compare various brands, grades, and qualities of commonly available motor oil. I very much enjoy the respectful replies and outstanding information and links to even more information that is being shared on this forum and others.
The way an ordinary consumer compares various brands, grades and (especially) quality of commonly available motor oil is through the licenses, specifications and approvals the oil carries. Those represent testing results that accurately predict the oil's performance in the real world. Crapola tests and websites on the Internet are no substitute for, nor do they even compliment legitimate tests. They only serve to confuse and misdirect those who do not know any better.
 

4WD

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16,806
Location
Texas
^^^ There have been a couple of big threads on this site that showed why 540 Rat's data has so large of error bars on it, and that you really can't draw any scientific conclusions from his ranked data. Like I mentioned in post #83, that would be the only accurate way of discerning wear characteristics of certain AW/AF additives all used in different oils all having the same KV100 viscosity. The "one-armed bandit" isn't a very accurate testing method. Even the ASTM test procedure say some of their test methods accuracy and repeatability isn't great. Of course, you have to pay for the paper, unless you can search and find one on the 'net that's free to view.

The way an ordinary consumer compares various brands, grades and (especially) quality of commonly available motor oil is through the licenses, specifications and approvals the oil carries. Those represent testing results that accurately predict the oil's performance in the real world. Crapola tests and websites on the Internet are no substitute for, nor do they even compliment legitimate tests. They only serve to confuse and misdirect those who do not know any better.
On top of that - if one was to focus on how he writes: Full blown narcissism on display …
 
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...
On top of that - if one was to focus on how he writes: Full blown narcissism on display …

So true. One has scroll a long ways through bolded words proclaiming that he is a engineer and his results are the facts and a whole lot more gobbledygook before even getting to the test results.

I did enjoy the section on his argument with a respected member here.
 
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57_Chevy_Thunder

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Wyoming
Interesting feedback to say the least. I wonder if anyone anywhere outside of his own circle knows what kind of test equipment he actually uses?
I notice that he adamantly states that it is neither a “One Armed Bandit” tester and NOT a “4-Ball Wear Tester”.

With all due respect, I will readily admit I find the constant defensiveness very tiring. Heck wouldn't it be better to just video the whole setup? -and show the whole world how it is done? -and then everyone can see how legitimate it all is. (yah I know, far too simple minded on my part)

Anyway, I still think it would be fantastic to see several independent test labs come into play.

But then, I have to wonder if the motor oil manufacturing industry would somehow be able to wipe those businesses right out of existence just as soon as they displayed all the results by name and specific product tested? I seriously wonder,,,

So, that is sort of a side note discussion, but I think they are valid points.

Thanks again to everyone for the great replies !!
 
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27,494
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PNW
Interesting feedback to say the least. I wonder if anyone anywhere outside of his own circle knows what kind of test equipment he actually uses?
I notice that he adamantly states that it is neither a “One Armed Bandit” tester and NOT a “4-Ball Wear Tester”.

With all due respect, I will readily admit I find the constant defensiveness very tiring. Heck wouldn't it be better to just video the whole setup? -and show the whole world how it is done? -and then everyone can see how legitimate it all is. (yah I know, far too simple minded on my part)
Or how illegitimate it is. It's most likely a home-made one armed bandit contraption that creates a "wear scar". There are probably reasons he doesn't get into the details of the test machine, procedures and measurements.

The big thread where his top 100 rated oils data was crunched, the best you might be able to discern from the ranking is that the top 5 were probably better than the bottom 5.
 
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17,239
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Upper Midwest
Or how illegitimate it is. It's most likely a home-made one armed bandit contraption that creates a "wear scar". There are probably reasons he doesn't get into the details of the test machine, procedures and measurements.

The big thread where his top 100 rated oils data was crunched, the best you might be able to discern from the ranking is that the top 5 were probably better than the bottom 5.
And even if you could all it would show was which was better on the wear scar machine. Nothing related to operation in an ICE.

That's one of the other numerous complete fails of this moron's "tests". There are more.
 
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2,570
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Caldwell Idaho
I would tend to agree on a thicker oil but the reality is the 20wt seems to allow engine life longer than the ownership of people vehicles. Look at the uoas. There are so few high mile vehicles. Most of the high mile vehicles were purchased used. The others are maintained with a variety of oils.
 

Kql

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27
Considering fuel dilution, that 0w-20 gets even thinner as the miles pile. So if it makes you feel better use the 30 weights. It's what I do. If you live somewhere where temps fall really low, like in the -F, 0w-30 would be good. Otherwise don't stress and just use 5w-30. My wife's Hyundai calls for 0w-20 but I fill 5w-30 and the car runs beautifully.
Except that oil thickens with usage.
 
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