Would you ever use the same oil filter more than twice?
- Thread starter ZZman
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4WD
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You guys trash talking and doing laugh faces have made zero technical points … my newest vehicle allows 9k on an average filter … 10k on a Fram Ultra is an easy run …
10, 15, and 20K mile oil filters exist for a reason.
Modern engines put out next to no contamination, so they dont fill them up, and they can be constructed so as to reliably last that long.
Honda recommends an FCI every other OCI for a reason.
Honda measures what the engines put out and know for a fact they can easily carry 2 OCI's and still have margin.
They've been doing that a long time.
Thousands of UOA's done on Hondas all stay within norms whether changing every time or keeping in place - there is no difference.
If you are worried about the dirty oil in the filter why aren't you worried about the dirty oil left inside the engine as well? there is lots more in there than the filter.
People confuse cheap insurance with assured waste all the time.
People often think they know better than manufacturers, yet never show a single data point to back up their positions, the best you usually get is an underwear analogy, or because thats the way "dad did it".
Modern engines put out next to no contamination, so they dont fill them up, and they can be constructed so as to reliably last that long.
Honda recommends an FCI every other OCI for a reason.
Honda measures what the engines put out and know for a fact they can easily carry 2 OCI's and still have margin.
They've been doing that a long time.
Thousands of UOA's done on Hondas all stay within norms whether changing every time or keeping in place - there is no difference.
If you are worried about the dirty oil in the filter why aren't you worried about the dirty oil left inside the engine as well? there is lots more in there than the filter.
People confuse cheap insurance with assured waste all the time.
People often think they know better than manufacturers, yet never show a single data point to back up their positions, the best you usually get is an underwear analogy, or because thats the way "dad did it".
There is data that says filters will lose efficiency with time/miles driven. But you are correct 1 or 2 OCIs on a filter is likely irrelevant, especially if its a good filter and the OEM recommends every other OCI.
Manufacturers recommendations are not necessarily meant to meet everyone's expectations.
I might do something different if I was planning to drive a car for 500,000 miles versus someone planning to keep a car for 100,000.
They are designing everything to a certain specification - whether thats reliability, initial cost, maintenance costs, etc etc.
I generally agree with what you're saying though, just that a lot of discussion on this forum is about doing the best possible thing regardless of what the OEM recommends.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Plus in the past - many suppliers were not willing (some still are not) to put a mileage estimate on oil and filters … but more have joined in and I have run Fram XG, Mobil 1, Royal Purple, and Wix XP 10k or more …
I feel most comfortable with 10k. All of them cut open and in great shape …
AC Delco, Motorcraft etc … about 7k personal limit … but in great shape …
Therefore I’m more likely to change oil sooner with the long range filter …
(have Fumoto valve - no ramps)
I'm aligned on doing the best thing for the car, (especially trucks) and If I ever saw a shred of evidence showing it hurt I'd dump them every OCI.
The second you start the car you puke the dirty oil in the engine into the new filter, or you could say you crap your freshly changed underwear.
The standard honda filters are like Toyotas in efficiency - really bad, yet these vehicles routinely attain high miles with only standard maintenance.
A Fram Ultra could lose half its efficiency and still outperform the Honda AO series.
Keeping a good air filter in place does much more for the life of the vehicle all filters considered anyway.
A filter mounted magnet will catch particles even the best filters wont (1-3 ISO code drops) as well as extend the life of the oil and filter.
Unless it's a Honda, and it all blows past the piston rings.
Shel_B
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I'm glad you brought that up. Back in the 50s, if a car even had an oil filter, changing the filter every second oil change was almost a de facto standard.
Never personally. Filters are cheap engines are not. I have known people who do though but I have OCD and I would literally lay awake at night thinking about it lol.
I wouldn’t use an oil filter more than once.
all the time... I do 50k oil filter changes, 10k oil changes.
To the OP, yes I'll leave the filter in up to 10-12k miles. That works out to 2 oil changes per filter. That's every time on the Toyota, I've only done that a couple of times with the F150. The 2.7 ecoboost is really a simple oil change with the cartridge filter up top.
Well they're not doing it any longer. Because several of their engines have had, and continue to have severe fuel dilution issues with oil. Many of which have resulted in lunched engines. So much so in fact, that Honda has lowered their OCI's on many of their engines.
Even some of the newer Toyota engines are experiencing blow by from the loose fitting piston rings both companies are using, in order to reduce rotational forces. All in a never ending quest to achieve maximum mileage, to meet strict CAFE requirements. Coupled with these water thin oils they are now employing, (0W-16), to further resist these rotational forces. More, not less frequent oil and filter changes are becoming necessary.... At least if you expect any type of longevity from your engine.
Toyota is finding by increasing the oil and filter change intervals, it is preventing seized piston rings, that are causing major engine damage in several of their older engines. And even some of the newer one's. Honda is in much the same boat, because they are employing the same loose fitting piston rings for the same reason. Both are after the same result... Increased fleet CAFE fuel mileage. The only difference is Honda has had far more problems with fuel dilution of the oil.
Shel_B
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Might that be the result of Honda using turbos and DI while Toyota, at least until recently, has not
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You mean decreasing oil and filter change intervals ?
Yes, I'm sorry. Brain fart on my part. More frequent oil and filter changes. I don't particularly care for this guy, but he explains how extended OCI's (10,000 miles), allow for more buildup of crap in the piston ring grooves. Which in turn can cause piston ring seizures, which basically destroys engines. (Once a stuck ring starts cutting grooves into the cylinder wall, it's basically shot...... The solution, (according to him and Toyota), more frequent oil changes. (Around 10:30 in the video).
Again, this all goes back to loose fitted piston rings, in an attempt to decrease rotational force in order to increase CAFE mileage.
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I have not seen any article, info, or manuals indicating Honda has moved away from their A/B maintenance minder system.
Can you please point me to your reference, or manual for this change? Id be interested to read it.
Some OCI's may have been altered down, on other engines altered up past 10K, but the A/B system still stands in all the manuals Ive looked at.
I looked at the civics 2022 manual for a quick check
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