wemay
Site Donor 2023
It's true, Toyota and Honda hold their value better than the others.
https://www.iseecars.com/resale-value/hybrid-cars
Would you buy a hybrid?
- Thread starter 2019CRVlx
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https://www.iseecars.com/resale-value/hybrid-cars
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I have absolutely zero interest in a hybrid or EV.
I was just in the market to upgrade my ride.
I really wanted to like the Corolla Cross Hybrid. It seemed to be a good value and a decent ride.
I couldn't get a test drive.
I ended up buying a Mazda CX-30 Turbo Premium Plus. Similar, but not. Frankly, the Mazda is more my speed anyway.
Not that I'm against a hybrid. oilBabe's next car might be a hybrid since she likes her RAV4.
I really wanted to like the Corolla Cross Hybrid. It seemed to be a good value and a decent ride.
I couldn't get a test drive.
I ended up buying a Mazda CX-30 Turbo Premium Plus. Similar, but not. Frankly, the Mazda is more my speed anyway.
Not that I'm against a hybrid. oilBabe's next car might be a hybrid since she likes her RAV4.
Depends on what your long term ownership proposition is I guess. I work with 3 people that own older Prius and they’ve all replaced their batteries once now, which isn’t something a pure ICE vehicle deals with. That’s why I prefer the full one or the other solution.
I combined two thoughts into one post. Allow me to try again.
Engineering 101 says the more systems you have the more likelihood of a failure, assuming any one system can ruin you. Now it’s certainly possible to build all of the systems well. And it’s certainly possible to cost reduce over time. However, you’re still back to the more Systems you have, the more possibility something will go wrong either in design or manufacturing or assembly.
The second was a thought on hybrids. I’ve seen this through design cycles of other products as well. The first design group goal is to build a quality product that meets spec. I think the original Prius and many other hybrids were very over engineered and are excellent vehicles and this has skewed opinions. Since then they have all been cost reduced. And while that is also true of ICE vehicles, they have less systems to cost reduce. So your multiplying probabilities by opportunities, and there are more opportunities in a hybrid than in a ICE only system to screw up. Having spent a fair bit of time on the RAV4 boards, for example it seems the current generation hybrid has had more early issues than previous generation hybrids. Again it’s a forum so it’s anecdotal.
At the end of the day, it’s all about implementation. The two things I have noticed over time is people quoting reliability on hybrids that are like 100 K miles? I mean really no new car should have any significant problems in the first 100K Miles in my opinion. My second anecdotal piece of observation is that I have yet to find a professional mechanic that wants one. If your job is working on cars all day long the last thing you wanna do is work on your own so if they were ultra reliable, the mechanics would be buying up the used ones.
IMHO only.
They didn’t have a car to drive or wouldn’t let you drive one without buying? I ran into that problem when I was buying my wife a car the last time if they wouldn’t let you drive it. Our only options at that time for the criteria was the VW ID.4 and Tesla Model 3. Everyone else didn’t even have a demo car that we were considering. Honestly the ID.4 was our first choice, but our order didn’t get fulfilled after 8 months so we bought the Tesla instead.
Okay, let's do the arithmetic (no, it's not math), as I did before buying my HAH.
The Accord Hybrid had delivered an actual 49.3 mpg over the first 92K or so, the last time I added up all the fuel the car had used to date last fall, or about 5% over its EPA combined estimate.
An Accord 1.5t had an EPA combined rating of 33 mpg, so let's assume that I could get 5% better than that, or rounded up to the nearest tenth 34.7 mpg.
In 90K miles, the hybrid actually used 1826 gallons of fuel while the 1.5t would have used 2594 gallons.
So, in 90K miles the hybrid used 768 gallons less fuel, or $2304.00 less in fuel expense over 90K miles if we assume an average fuel cost of $3.00/gal.
The HAH when I bought it cost only around $1800.00 more than a similarity well bought 1.5t would have been, so there is a savings in owning the hybrid.
Obviously more costly gas would make the hybrid's cost advantage greater and those who don't drive much also don't reap the benefits of a hybrid.
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Not sure where you're getting that from but for Honda and Toyota hybrids its a laughable statement.
It would be more accurate to note that nothing retains value better.
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My mother's last car was a Fit which she leased in 2018. At the expiration of the lease she no longer felt that she should be driving, at only 94 yo. The lease buyout in 2021 was way less than the then current market value of the car, so one of my sisters bought it and still has it.
The Fit was a nice little car with plenty of room and was quite decent to drive overall.
An economical small ICE car is a good alternative to a hybrid considering overall cradle to grave costs.
Too bad these sort of cars are no longer offered in our market.
We have a pro mechanic on here who owned a Prius, so maybe your statement is a bit broad.
It is also a little silly to compare a highly stressed turbo truck motor and complex lotsa speeds automatic with the low output Atkinson cycle engines and simpler transmissions that hybrids use.
Overall, demonstrated reliability and durability of hybrid cars in actual use seems to be at least on a par with ICE only vehicles.
I would absolutely own a sedan hybrid. I averaged 42mpg at 75mph with a fusion PHEV and it was incredibly comfy. 65mph with a slight tailwind and it was running on battery power instead. I may have ended up with a Prius if the newest style came out before I got the cx5.
You’re comparing what to what? An old Prius to a turbo truck?
Compare Same platform. Current RAV4. Engine the same. Hybrid trans is likely better but there are plenty of current ICE Rav4’s with the Aisin 8 speed working fine at 200K. Hybrid has an absolute ton of electronic motor controllers battery cells and more complex diffs that are dealer only parts sold complete. Hybrid has already shown lots more problems and there all pretty new. Time will tell I suppose? Willing to bet far more will be junked over time due to failure of an unavailable or too expensive part.
Give us some examples of "Hybrid has already shown lots more problems" and not merely a generalized statement with no backup.
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I realize some here do not trust what consumers reports say , but if we are going to discuss issues without data, it’s just opinion.
Interesting what they say about Hybrid reliability.
I checked out the Toyota Hybrid reliability ratings and they don’t have any issues ( past and present ).
https://www.consumerreports.org/med...-reports-2023-annual-auto-reliability-survey/
Interesting what they say about Hybrid reliability.
I checked out the Toyota Hybrid reliability ratings and they don’t have any issues ( past and present ).
https://www.consumerreports.org/med...-reports-2023-annual-auto-reliability-survey/
$7000 high power rear cable known to corrode. Toyota acknowledges it - extended warranty to 8 years. Big woop. The connector is very poorly designed. The “improved” one simply put a hole in it so it can drain. Some owners either take it apart and pot it or take it apart and coat it regularly.
I do expect an aftermarket cable at some point with better design but Toyota showed there true cheapness in the original design and not improving it and it taking a class action threat to do anything.
There were issues with the gas tank in the first couple years. Toyota fixed that.
There are a number of smaller issues that affect both ICE and hybrid. But with hybrid you get all the problems.
Everything is built pretty poorly these days it seems.
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IOW, Toyota warranted the cost to fix, so no cost to owners.
Doesn't sound too awful for any owner and obviously nobody spent this mythical 7K.
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You said the original Toyota were ultra reliable ( I do not see reliability problems in CR based on owners surveys or by anyone I know who owns one ) , implying not anymore.
If they were over engineered in the past, but ultra reliable, I would consider them engineered properly versus over engineered.
Honda ICE engines, what I have owned since 1996 , are far more complicated than the first model ( and every model after ) I have owned, but they are just as reliable as my first , basic, model.
Despite all the horror stories about CVTs , I have never had a problem with it in one of my cars. It’s not less reliable than the other car with a manual transmission ( but if I didn’t change the fluid, I would have more problems than if I didn’t change my MT fluid I bet ).
Airbus is the most complicated plane I have flown, but the most reliable , by far.
Increased complexity , if designed properly, doesn’t mean less reliability.
Cost cutting always leads to quality/reliability issues.
Economics 101= do not let the men/woman who count beans run the show.
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"New" technology?
The Prius first went on sale in Japan in 1997, and 2000 in the rest of the world, joined by the Honda Insight.
It's old enough to drink, have a college degree, have started a family; or any or all of the above.
The Prius first went on sale in Japan in 1997, and 2000 in the rest of the world, joined by the Honda Insight.
It's old enough to drink, have a college degree, have started a family; or any or all of the above.
The bean counters run the show in consumer products. When you sell a million of something every penny counts. You get big promotions for saving even a dollar per vehicle.
What happens after 8 years?
Many owners did pay $7K until Toyota reimbursed them under threat of class action.
