Wind turbines shut down when needed most..

[Shannow]

Yeah, I don’t think that is happening.
But electric cooktop with solar is much better ootion, simply from financial stand point.
I have gas cooktop with two gas ovens, and will replace for electric simply bcs. I have excessive electric production. Heck, I might go electric water heater, bump size, and add 2-4 more panels.

So you eat your main cooked meal at Midday ?

I know a few retirees here who do that...unfortunately, my electric stove and oven get used after my panels have stopped producing enough electricity to run them.

 

[4WD]

Yeah, there's no issue with STP for cooling, I think eddy is claiming the whole plant went down due to cooling water issues, which isn't what happened at all, heck, the unit itself didn't even go offline, just the turbine did.

Several organizations convinced investors that nuclear can’t compete with renew on cost - therefore not worth the risk …
They challenged the already approved upgrade to STP …
Nowhere in anything did I read comparisons of reliability …
NRG has pulled out …

 

[wag123]

Another oblique comment when my comment was STP and lack of support from where the money is - large cities …
You know this … but …

Houston, Austin, & San Antonio were ALL partners in the first two STNP units and we were badly burned by HL&P's mismanagement of the project and Brown and Root's mismanagement of the construction. The final bill after being behind on completion by 8 years was 8 times the original estimate, and only two of the four units were completed. We are still paying for it. I'm afraid that Austin and San Antonio residents have had a belly-full of the STNP and are in no mood to involve themselves in another debacle on this same project. This is the primary reason that the construction of units three and four has been shelved, nobody is willing to pay for it. If the rest of the state's residents want it to be built, they are going to have to step up to the pump and pay the piper. For the record, I am totally in favor of nuclear power.

 

[4WD]

Houston, Austin, & San Antonio were ALL partners in the first two STNP units and we were badly burned by HL&P's mismanagement of the project and Brown and Root's mismanagement of the construction. The final bill after being behind on completion by 8 years was 8 times the original estimate, and only two of the four units were completed. We are still paying for it. I'm afraid that Austin and San Antonio residents have had a belly-full of the STNP and are in no mood to involve themselves in another debacle on this same project. This is the primary reason that the construction of units three and four has been shelved, nobody is willing to pay for it. If the rest of the state's residents want it to be built, they are going to have to step up to the pump and pay the piper. For the record, I am totally in favor of nuclear power.

Let them freeze - not my problem …
By the way - I know the story well …

 

[Shannow]

Several organizations convinced investors that nuclear can’t compete with renew on cost - therefore not worth the risk …
They challenged the already approved upgrade to STP …
Nowhere in anything did I read comparisons of reliability …
NRG has pulled out …

Oz has fixed the cost by declaring that 6,400 miles of transmission would be needed anyway (false), and taking them off the renewables side of the ledger...so the initial cost of an intermittent 15-20 year wind turbine is compared to the intitial cost of a nuke (that's 50-80 years)

 

[OVERKILL]

Just looking at the curve, it looks like the increase was between 2.5 and 3% per year over the 23 year period prior to 2022. I wouldn't call that out of control. Seems to be in line with inflation in Western nations.

An upward trend doesn't mean things are out of control or out of whack.

The only place in North America with rates even approaching those seen in Germany and Denmark and more recently the UK, which have the highest costs, is California.

So yes, if not misleading, then perhaps the issue is drawing the wrong conclusion. The graph shows me that electric prices were growing at a rate in line with inflation prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

And you are absolutely free to embrace electricity costs escalating at that rate if you feel it is reasonable while we push for more consumption via electrification.

In 2022, Germany capped household electricity rates at $0.40/kWh (Euro cents), due to the impact the Ukraine situation was having on them. For me, in Canada, that's $0.59/kWh. Keep in mind, Ontario has a higher average household income than Germany does.

Now, I'm living the "green dream", having installed a heat pump, and here's my most recent electricity bill:

That's an effective all-in rate of $0.14/kWh.

This bill, if I was paying German rates, would have been $899.57

Now, as I said, maybe you'd be fine paying $900/month for electricity, but I'm certainly not. Add an EV to this scenario and things could get even more stupid! Say I used 2,200kWh, that'd be $1,300!

This is why the average German household uses 3,500kWh.... per YEAR, while a house in Quebec will use more than that in 2 months.

 

[edyvw]

Another oblique comment when my comment was STP and lack of support from where the money is - large cities …
You know this … but …

There is no oblique comments. Why state can’t pitch money? Why should counties? In the end, the whole idea behind TX being independent grid, ERCOT etc. is supply-demand, pure market system, so why not being private investment? I think French way is much better, they proved it is much better, but that ain’t gonna happen. Now, i agree that anti-nuclear movement is very often out of their minds (not all the time, though), but that didn’t stop GA commissioning new nuclear generators.

 

[OVERKILL]

So don’t run your dishwasher, dryer, cook in electric over for hours or charge an EV unless necessary.

The grid works with multiple sources decently just need to introduce some sort of incentive during high demand periods to make people reduce instead of asking.

No one died…..

So your proposal is to tell people to heat their house less (remember, the push to electrify heat?) when it's -45? I expect the good people of Alberta would have some choice words as to where you can put that opinion.

 

[edyvw]

So you eat your main cooked meal at Midday ?

I know a few retirees here who do that...unfortunately, my electric stove and oven get used after my panels have stopped producing enough electricity to run them.

What eating main meal mid day has to do with it? I send excessive power during the day to the grid. During night I take from the grid. I am currently profiting from production as I use less than what I make.

 

[OVERKILL]

What common thread? We don’t have issues regardless of switch to wind and solar. Unlike in TX, during extreme cold, emergency gas plants don’t fail.
I would think Alberta would have emergency gas plants to make up for loss. In TX, well it is TX, they know best how to do it.

Spot the difference:

 

[4WD]

There is no oblique comments. Why state can’t pitch money? Why should counties? In the end, the whole idea behind TX being independent grid, ERCOT etc. is supply-demand, pure market system, so why not being private investment? I think French way is much better, they proved it is much better, but that ain’t gonna happen. Now, i agree that anti-nuclear movement is very often out of their minds (not all the time, though), but that didn’t stop GA commissioning new nuclear generators.

Nobody is willing to pay for nuclear …
Unreliable sources are the problem - this is engineering but you only see blue and red …

 

[Shannow]

What eating main meal mid day has to do with it? I send excessive power during the day to the grid. During night I take from the grid. I am currently profiting from production as I use less than what I make.

Well your solar electricity, just like mine isn't cooking your food, is it ?

Just like people whose cars are parked at work all day aren't solar powering their evening recharge.

The grid isn't a battery...you are calling on some schedulable source to cook your food.

It's really the most simple of understandings of how things work that everyone gets wrong.

 

[andrew_j]

So your proposal is to tell people to heat their house less (remember, the push to electrify heat?) when it's -45? I expect the good people of Alberta would have some choice words as to where you can put that opinion.

Did I state less heat ?

 

[OVERKILL]

Did I state less heat ?

What do you think would be the primary consumer of electricity in this scenario with broad electrification? Heat pumps fall back to resistive in this scenario, which drives up load and heat pumps are being pushed as a replacement for gas heat, I know, I have one.

 

[edyvw]

Well your solar electricity, just like mine isn't cooking your food, is it ?

Just like people whose cars are parked at work all day aren't solar powering their evening recharge.

The grid isn't a battery...you are calling on some schedulable source to cook your food.

It's really the most simple of understandings of how things work that everyone gets wrong.

I do not understand actually what you are talking about. Why would I need to schedule cooking? Solar power is exchanged. I send to grid during the day, I take during the night. Difference means either I make money (which I do now) or I lose money.
Solar is an addition. Solar is good as daytime has higher usage, especially in hot states like TX, AZ etc. No one said it is THE solution.
But in TX, they quickly figured out it means the difference between blackouts or having AC when it gets really hot.

 

[drtyler]

Nobody is willing to pay for nuclear …
Unreliable sources are the problem - this is engineering but you only see blue and red …

We're paying for it in Georgia.

Started out as a good idea. Our bills keep going up for nuclear plant construction cost recovery.

 

[edyvw]

Nobody is willing to pay for nuclear …
Unreliable sources are the problem - this is engineering but you only see blue and red …

Why not companies? That was all the idea behind the TX market, as it would encourage investment because of potential profit. So, I am not sure why counties are a problem if it works so well.
I mean, if money from counties is needed, then the public should get a share and sit at the table in those companies.

 

[SC Maintenance]

We're paying for it in Georgia.

Started out as a good idea. Our bills keep going up for nuclear plant construction cost recovery.

At least you got a plant. Our bills in South Carolina keep going up for the plant that was started and will never be finished.

 

[Shannow]

I do not understand actually what you are talking about. Why would I need to schedule cooking? Solar power is exchanged. I send to grid during the day, I take during the night. Difference means either I make money (which I do now) or I lose money.
Solar is an addition. Solar is good as daytime has higher usage, especially in hot states like TX, AZ etc. No one said it is THE solution.
But in TX, they quickly figured out it means the difference between blackouts or having AC when it gets really hot.

Clearly you don't understand...it is not "exchanged", or "put in" to "take out" later.

To help explain, here's Australia on September 16th...

All of the people "putting in" had far too much supply, and so the volume of renewables (solar and wind) between the solid red line and the dotted red line were curtailed (that means turned off) to manage the grid.

Then right about dinner time, there WAS no solar, either roof top or industrial...requiring gas, hydro, batteries and overwhelmingly coal to meet the evening peak.

It's a simple to grasp concept, however people on this site resort to simplistic put in/take out descriptions of what they would like to think they are signalling about their virtue.

 

[4WD]

Why not companies? That was all the idea behind the TX market, as it would encourage investment because of potential profit. So, I am not sure why counties are a problem if it works so well.
I mean, if money from counties is needed, then the public should get a share and sit at the table in those companies.

Because they need commitments in advance …
The lobby has been stronger for wind and solar …
But, the issue is still the price of reliability …
For now that’s GTG … so co’s still paying for both systems …
(going to get passed on to consumers - so lack of support for nuke)
Dow will do small nuke - we‘ll see how that goes …