Will Thinner Oils Damage Your Engine?

[ZeeOSix]

Ford tests it's production vehicles in the hottest place on Earth and they survive on 5W20.

Then they are shipped to Australia.

Then they are shipped to no CAFE Australia with 5W-30 in the sump from the factory.

 

[Zaedock]

What's that have to do with parts sliding past each other with a thin film of oil between them to keep them separated and wearing on each other? Nada.

Controlling valves, combustion and engine output can decrease oil temperature, so yes it has something to do with it.

 

[Zaedock]

Then they are shipped to Australia with 5W-30 in the sump from the factory.

I think you're guessing on that one. We'd need to find someone here on the ol' line to confirm.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I think you're guessing on that one. We'd need to find someone here on the ol' line to confirm.

Go Google and find the Ford Auatraila website and look at the OMs and what they spec for oil. I have, and have verified the spec 5W-30.

 

[Zaedock]

Dang it - I have to get that dirt off my trailer!
See you guys tonight.

If anyone has any docs on domestic export lubes, that would be cool to read.

 

[MLRTYME]

What's that have to do with parts sliding past each other with a thin film of oil between them to keep them separated and wearing on each other? Nada.

Oh It has a lot do when it comes to modern engines. VVT, VCT cam phasers, MDS, etc. You even get Dodges that produce a P1521 code when you put the wrong viscosity oil in the engine. That tells you a lot what the ECM knows and do.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Oh It has a lot do when it comes to modern engines. VVT, VCT cam phasers, MDS, etc. You even get Dodges that produce a P1521 code when you put the wrong viscosity oil in the engine.

VVT, VCT etc has nothing to do with tribology and how it relates to wear between moving parts. And why would Ford go through the trouble to change something like that on an export model. And also, Ford plainly recommends thicker oil for track use which is basically just saying if the oil runs hotter, use a thicker oi.

 

[ZeeOSix]

If anyone has any docs on domestic export lubes, that would be cool to read.

And there have been many threads talking about the same cars sold in countries outside the US that clearly show in the OM that thicker oils can be used.

 

[kschachn]

Oh It has a lot do when it comes to modern engines. VVT, VCT cam phasers, MDS, etc. You even get Dodges that produce a P1521 code when you put the wrong viscosity oil in the engine. That tells you a lot what the ECM knows and do.

Which is not what he was talking about.

 

[MLRTYME]

VVT, VCT etc has nothing to do with and how it relates to wear between moving parts. And why would Ford go through the trouble to change something like that on an export model. And also, Ford plainly recommends thicker oil for track use which is basically just saying if the oil runs hotter, use a thicker oi.

It can if you use the wrong viscosity on some engines but at the end of the day, do you. Put 5W30 or 20W50. Whatever make you happy. My point is xW20 works fine and will not damage your engine regardless of climate, load, etc.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Do you. Put 5W30 or 20W50. Whatever make you happy. My point is xW20 works fine and will not damage your engine regardless of climate, load, etc..

Like said earlier ... big difference between "damage" and more long term wear. But push and engine hard and long enough it certainly could cause some damage. It's all about MOFT headroom between moving parts. Thinner and hotter oil eats headroom.

 

[tig1]

When running your 20 just feather the accelerator and don't exceed 55mph... you'll be fine, even save a quarter per month in fuel cost.

Filter probably caught a lot of the wear debris, and the particles that did make it through still might have been too big to get solid UOA info. Guess it shows that UOAs might not even show that an engine is eating itself, like in his case with significant bearing wear.

I would only do a UOA if I suspected contaminates in the oil, like excessive fuel, dirt, or coolant.

 

[MLRTYME]

Like said earlier ... big difference between "damage" and more long term wear. But push and engine hard and long enough it certainly could cause some damage. It's all about MOFT headroom between moving parts. Thinner and hotter oil eats headroom.

It's more than about MOFT. If it was strictly MOFT, then why not use 20W50?

 

[kschachn]

You even get Dodges that produce a P1521 code when you put the wrong viscosity oil in the engine. That tells you a lot what the ECM knows and do.

One wonders if the manufacturer doesn't get additional CAFE credits for deliberately designing an ancillary component for the engine management that will preclude the use of a higher viscosity oil. Note it's not that the engine mechanicals such as bearings and such that is preventing the use, it is some component that could just as easily be designed to work with higher viscosity. So people drag out "oh this engine won't work on anything but a 20-grade" when in reality it doesn't have anything to do with the "engine" itself.

 

[ZeeOSix]

It's more than about MOFT. If it was strictly MOFT, then why not use 20W50?

It is mainly about viscosity and MOFT ... is the most basic foundation of trilogy. Viscosity and relative movement speed between parts changes the MOFT which is what keeps parts separated and wearing on each other.

 

[kschachn]

It's more than about MOFT. If it was strictly MOFT, then why not use 20W50?

MOFT always wins, what else is there? Thinner grades are propped up to provide a required MOFT, whether that be due to the additives to the base or or to closer bearing tolerances (or usually both). But in the end it always comes down to the film thickness.

And why not use 20W-50 if your operating conditions allow and you don't care about the fuel economy that a lower viscosity oil brings? It's not going to hurt the engine mechanicals. People have such weird ideas about oil grades.

 

[ZeeOSix]

One wonders if the manufacturer doesn't get additional CAFE credits for deliberately designing an ancillary component for the engine management that will preclude the use of a higher viscosity oil. Note it's not that the engine mechanicals such as bearings and such aren't what is preventing the use, it is some component that could just as easily be designed to work with higher viscosity. So people drag out "oh this engine won't work on anything but a 20-grade" when in reality it doesn't have anything to do with the "engine" itself.

If VVT, VCT, etc didn't work well with thicker oil, then manufacturers would never recommend a thicker oil for any use conditions. And parts clearances like journal bearings have been pretty much constant for decades, so that's not the driver. The driver for thinner oils is CAFE.

 

[MLRTYME]

It is about viscosity and MOFT ... is the most basic foundation of trilogy. Viscosity and relative movement speed between parts changes the MOFT which is what keeps parts separated and wearing on each other.

Exactly. That's why xW20 oil is fine.

If VVT, VCT, etc didn't work well with thicker oil, then manufacturers would recomment thicker oil for any use conditions.

If you use what is spec'd. Doesn't matter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Exactly. That's why xW20 oil is fine.

If you use what is spec'd. Doesn't matter.

xW-20 or less = "Fine for benign"

"Doesn't matter" = it didn't blow up while I owned it.

 

[MLRTYME]

MOFT always wins, what else is there? Thinner grades are propped up to provide a required MOFT, whether that be due to the additives to the base or or to closer bearing tolerances (or usually both). But in the end it always comes down to the film thickness.

And why not use 20W-50 if your operating conditions allow and you don't care about the fuel economy that a lower viscosity oil brings? It's not going to hurt the engine mechanicals. People have such weird ideas about oil grades.

Why not use 20W50? 2 words. Oil Starvation.