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But me buying an oil that just happens to be DEXOS approved/certified is still putting money into GM's pocket even though it goes into my Honda
Why Toyota and Honda have no oil specs?
- Thread starter Jeep Junkie
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Then don't buy oils that meet the dexos spec, lol. Point was that dexos is only specified by GM for GM made vehicles, not specified by any other car manufacturer for use in their cars. Oil companies want to sell oil, so they make oil that will meets the dexos spec because there are a lot of GM made vehicles on the road.
Never said that.
No.
You must not understand the difference between a spec and a license. Further it seems that you don't understand that an oil can meet a spec, but not have a license.
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The recent issue with Tundra engines has nothing to do with the engine design or even the assembly. Well, sort of doesn't.... The workers didn't wash/flush the blocks properly to remove machining material. It is 100% human fault.
Besides, the card players would be UAW folks (on the clock). Toyota is non-union.
Look, I already hate this topic. You can see how many people here want to run a Dexos oil because it’s “better” and they don’t drive a GM car.
You can look at the shelf space at an autozone or Walmart. It’s Dexos approved oils. Even though GM is only ~16% of the market share in the U.S.
We can have the entire conversation of do you actually need the Dexos approval or not. We can have the conversation of how the Dexos approvals work. We can have the conversation of what the Dexos approvals cost. Etc.
At the end of the day, if GM actually wanted tighter specs, they could work through the API if they wanted to. But they don’t, because it becomes beneficial for them to do it independently. If you feel like it’s important for you, then use it. This thread is particularly about Honda and Toyota. You do not need to run a Dexos approved product in those engines, end of story. But if you, feel like it’s a better product, then do it. Arguing nuances, verbiage, marketing, etc. to me, is splitting hairs and a waste of time. That’s why I don’t like getting involved in PCEO threads. Thus, my opening statement of thanks, I already hate this thread.
In this situation who created the spec and why isn't it valid?
Many sources say the dexos requirement spec is a level above the normal API and ILSAC specs ... so yeah, people may want to use it because of that even if the vehicle isn't a GM product. Good to have options.
How much cheaper in price do you think those oils would be if they didn't meet the dexos spec?
Guess I've never gotten so wound up over an oil spec. Yeah, the big brand oils I like meet the dexos specs, so I guess I'm stuck with it.
It’s not. I have two identical formulations. One is Dexos approved. One is not. Because I have several large customers, that know it’s a pointless spec.
On the flip side, now you can be like a certain company and game the spec with a group 2+ that is an inferior product in every way to a full synthetic. But can be sold at below every full synthetic. However, it *is* Dexos approved… technically.
Retail or blended/wholesale? Because I speak wholesale. Not retail. And that’s very confusing here.
Guess I've never gotten so wound up over an oil spec. Yeah, the big brand oils I like meet the dexos specs, so I guess I'm stuck with it.
It’s just this topic is a large sore spot in the industry to this day. That’s why there’s even majors going away from it. It’s just another reason prices continue to climb on everything. Because people are jumping on this bandwagon. Same thing with a lot of the Euro specs. Same thing with transmission fluids. Allison demands $7.50 a gallon royalty for the TES 668 spec. Which, essentially increases the cost of the fluid by 50%.
Then it adds further complexity for, little to no reason on the big picture. It’s just the OEMs looking for new revenue streams. The Dexos license is essentially a subscription model for GM in a way.
Hermann
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Maybe they know it makes no difference
Not really the focus of my point. If you have two oil formulations that are identical, and one can pass the dexos spec, then the other one will too ... and they are both identically good oils in terms of meeting a spec that's more stringent than API/ILSAC. But if one of those two couldn't meet dexos, then the other one that meets the more stringent dexos spec is therefore deemed better. That was my point.
If all these oils on the shelf didn't have a dexos spec & license, how much cheaper would they be? Lower wholesale should reflect to lower retail unless the oil manufacturers are into gouging.
As already noted, dexos is really only specified by GM for GM vehicles - no other manufactures specifies dexos for a non GM vehicle. Oil manufacturers have decided to blend their oils to meet the dexos spec for probably many reasons - making money by selling to a large market being the main one like any company. Even though you claim GM only has ~16% market share in the US - that's now, but there's a lot of GM vehicles still driving around, and GM sells vehicles all over the world too (ranked 4th-5th world wide), and still maintain the dexos spec for those. Maybe when GM's market share shrinks way down the dexos spec will go away.
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Has Honda/Acura HTO-06 been brought up in this thread?
It was mentioned ... here's some discussion in another thread. Don't hear much about it.
My point, in a much simpler and perhaps better way.
Why? Indeed. If adequate stuff exists, why make more adequate stuff.
GM makes no oil.
Manufacturer specs are usually bandaids to design problems after API is already done.
I guess I’m in the minority here. I believe that the dexos license actually does mean something. In fact, if I could not find an oil with an approval that I was looking for and could find a properly licensed dexos oil that’s what I would purchase. I think it’s relevant and significant.
I just came up with a scary thought inspired by this thread.
I agree. I think it is a higher standard. My point is that there are certainly oils out there that meet or exceed Dexos performance standards, but do not hold the license, for something like you mentioned before, having .1% more of something or other.
I would assume GM did, but have no idea. Never said it was not valid.
which is?
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