Owners manuals say additives are not recommended. I use good detergent oil,good detergent gasoline,and an M1 oil filter,to keep contaminants out of my engine. I'm certainly not going to pay MMO and introduce them in my engine. My car is at 108k and runs like the day I bought it. Really,guys, "Marvel Mystery Oil"? You gotta be kidding me.
Why the huge obsession with adding MMO?
- Thread starter Hemi426
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as long as you have been the only owner, then its unlikely that you need MMO. my car is at 122k and runs perfectly, our other honda is at almost 190k and it runs flawlessly. both have had MMO in them.
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Quote:
I don't think the one's who have tried it are being given credit for their "subjective" experience.
Well, I surely give high marks for butt dyno quotients. It's one of my principle criteria for proving worth of any product.
Measurable, repeatable, and validated results are highly over rated.
Think about it, if there were some testing that could be performed, don't you think that Turtle Wax would perform them? It's surely not for lack of resources.
They don't even have the 4 ball test
I don't think the one's who have tried it are being given credit for their "subjective" experience.
Well, I surely give high marks for butt dyno quotients. It's one of my principle criteria for proving worth of any product.
Measurable, repeatable, and validated results are highly over rated.
Think about it, if there were some testing that could be performed, don't you think that Turtle Wax would perform them? It's surely not for lack of resources.
They don't even have the 4 ball test
It's not banned from Canada it's just not carried anymore in a lot of places.
Some Home Hardwares and Tru-Value's carry it as I have seen it.
I usually buy it if/when I see it.
Some Home Hardwares and Tru-Value's carry it as I have seen it.
I usually buy it if/when I see it.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
It's not banned from Canada it's just not carried anymore in a lot of places.
Some Home Hardwares and Tru-Value's carry it as I have seen it.
I usually buy it if/when I see it.
I heard/read somewhere specifically that it was government action which took it off of the shelves of just about every store here. Are you sure that what you're seeing isn't just old stock that isn't cleared out yet because most people don't shop at Home Hardware for motor oil and fuel additives?
It's not banned from Canada it's just not carried anymore in a lot of places.
Some Home Hardwares and Tru-Value's carry it as I have seen it.
I usually buy it if/when I see it.
I heard/read somewhere specifically that it was government action which took it off of the shelves of just about every store here. Are you sure that what you're seeing isn't just old stock that isn't cleared out yet because most people don't shop at Home Hardware for motor oil and fuel additives?
1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
I'll pass on the chlorinated hydrocarbons. They do dissolve carbon acceptably well, and they make good pesticides for stem-drenching trees against borers, but I don't need the corrosive byproducts in my engines. Many will argue that this concern is totally unfounded, and many others agree with me that there exists real demerits with these compounds to the point of prohibiting them from the motor oils they produce. IMO, I'll avoid them.
1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
I'll pass on the chlorinated hydrocarbons. They do dissolve carbon acceptably well, and they make good pesticides for stem-drenching trees against borers, but I don't need the corrosive byproducts in my engines. Many will argue that this concern is totally unfounded, and many others agree with me that there exists real demerits with these compounds to the point of prohibiting them from the motor oils they produce. IMO, I'll avoid them.
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Originally Posted By: FZ1
Owners manuals say additives are not recommended. I use good detergent oil,good detergent gasoline,and an M1 oil filter,to keep contaminants out of my engine. I'm certainly not going to pay MMO and introduce them in my engine. My car is at 108k and runs like the day I bought it. Really,guys, "Marvel Mystery Oil"? You gotta be kidding me.
I'll sorta correct that statement and repeat myself. OEM's don't recommend for the CONSUMER/OWNER to use additives. They all have a shelf of approved remedies for customers that have problems.
Again, additives/remedies are fine for those who have issues. I try and ask why you have the issue.
Owners manuals say additives are not recommended. I use good detergent oil,good detergent gasoline,and an M1 oil filter,to keep contaminants out of my engine. I'm certainly not going to pay MMO and introduce them in my engine. My car is at 108k and runs like the day I bought it. Really,guys, "Marvel Mystery Oil"? You gotta be kidding me.
I'll sorta correct that statement and repeat myself. OEM's don't recommend for the CONSUMER/OWNER to use additives. They all have a shelf of approved remedies for customers that have problems.
Again, additives/remedies are fine for those who have issues. I try and ask why you have the issue.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Owners manuals say additives are not recommended. I use good detergent oil,good detergent gasoline,and an M1 oil filter,to keep contaminants out of my engine. I'm certainly not going to pay MMO and introduce them in my engine. My car is at 108k and runs like the day I bought it. Really,guys, "Marvel Mystery Oil"? You gotta be kidding me.
I'll sorta correct that statement and repeat myself. OEM's don't recommend for the CONSUMER/OWNER to use additives. They all have a shelf of approved remedies for customers that have problems.
Again, additives/remedies are fine for those who have issues. I try and ask why you have the issue.
Exactly, I've had a few dealers recommend an oil flush before.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Owners manuals say additives are not recommended. I use good detergent oil,good detergent gasoline,and an M1 oil filter,to keep contaminants out of my engine. I'm certainly not going to pay MMO and introduce them in my engine. My car is at 108k and runs like the day I bought it. Really,guys, "Marvel Mystery Oil"? You gotta be kidding me.
I'll sorta correct that statement and repeat myself. OEM's don't recommend for the CONSUMER/OWNER to use additives. They all have a shelf of approved remedies for customers that have problems.
Again, additives/remedies are fine for those who have issues. I try and ask why you have the issue.
Exactly, I've had a few dealers recommend an oil flush before.
Originally Posted By: Lethal1ty17
i will go ahead and make the statement that IF you have been the only owner of your vehicle and IF you stayed on top of the oil changes and used high quality oils (like synthetics) then no, there PROBABLY isnt anything that will need to be cleaned out of your engine, like sludge.
My Mom is the original owner of her 1998 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, we put in Mobil 1 at 3000 miles and that is the only oil the car has seen, at 105,000 miles or so I put in 16 ounces of MMO 1000 miles before her OCI, when I changed the oil it came out very dark, I am now running 16 ounces of MMO in the oil and the car seems more responsive, maybe MMO cleaned up the RING PACKS.
I popped her oil fill cap off and her Valvetrain is spotless.
The product is working in everything I have put it into, so I will continue too use it.
i will go ahead and make the statement that IF you have been the only owner of your vehicle and IF you stayed on top of the oil changes and used high quality oils (like synthetics) then no, there PROBABLY isnt anything that will need to be cleaned out of your engine, like sludge.
My Mom is the original owner of her 1998 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, we put in Mobil 1 at 3000 miles and that is the only oil the car has seen, at 105,000 miles or so I put in 16 ounces of MMO 1000 miles before her OCI, when I changed the oil it came out very dark, I am now running 16 ounces of MMO in the oil and the car seems more responsive, maybe MMO cleaned up the RING PACKS.
I popped her oil fill cap off and her Valvetrain is spotless.
The product is working in everything I have put it into, so I will continue too use it.
The only thing i dont like about MMO in the oil is what ever you put in it burns off....for me it did.
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
The only thing i dont like about MMO in the oil is what ever you put in it burns off....for me it did.
I am still cleaning up my small block chevy, it holds 6 quarts of oil, I was adding 5 quarts of oil and 1 quart of MMO, now I am adding 5.5 quarts of oil and 1 quart of MMO.
I do think this MMO burns off, probably what is happening is that the MMO is soaking into the crud in my engine.
I do keep any eye on the oil level in my Mom's car, during the 1st OCI with MMO there was some burning off but so far on this 2nd OCI the Oil Level is fine.
I always tell anyone who is using MMO in there oil to keep an eye on there dipstick, this is not a product you pour into your oil and just forget about checking the oil level.
The only thing i dont like about MMO in the oil is what ever you put in it burns off....for me it did.
I am still cleaning up my small block chevy, it holds 6 quarts of oil, I was adding 5 quarts of oil and 1 quart of MMO, now I am adding 5.5 quarts of oil and 1 quart of MMO.
I do think this MMO burns off, probably what is happening is that the MMO is soaking into the crud in my engine.
I do keep any eye on the oil level in my Mom's car, during the 1st OCI with MMO there was some burning off but so far on this 2nd OCI the Oil Level is fine.
I always tell anyone who is using MMO in there oil to keep an eye on there dipstick, this is not a product you pour into your oil and just forget about checking the oil level.
+1 c3po!
I think the MMO is something that wont hurt. Use one full quart in your engine and keep an eye on it.
I had once done an Oil Change with MMO and "forgot it" as the Oil was resistant to burn-off. Went to do an Oil change, havingeither not checked the Oil level or not fully properly read my dipstick, it was one or the other, and it was VERY low!
Engine was fine, it has been said that as long as the Oil level is over the filler tube it is OK. However, on the MMO oil change i did not monitor it as i usually do, less oil than was supposed to be in there drained out.
MMO is supposed to gradually darken the oil, and thin it slightly. I am sure on an Oil with a sky-high HTHS or ASTM-D-445 100 degrees cSt rating of 15 or so, yo uwouldnt even notice.
My question, when cleaning up an abused engine and deciding to save money over ARx, is when to STOP using MMO.
It lso helps to use it in the gas. It double-teams the engine that way. There are faster "Gas" cleaners, howver.
I think the MMO is something that wont hurt. Use one full quart in your engine and keep an eye on it.
I had once done an Oil Change with MMO and "forgot it" as the Oil was resistant to burn-off. Went to do an Oil change, havingeither not checked the Oil level or not fully properly read my dipstick, it was one or the other, and it was VERY low!
Engine was fine, it has been said that as long as the Oil level is over the filler tube it is OK. However, on the MMO oil change i did not monitor it as i usually do, less oil than was supposed to be in there drained out.
MMO is supposed to gradually darken the oil, and thin it slightly. I am sure on an Oil with a sky-high HTHS or ASTM-D-445 100 degrees cSt rating of 15 or so, yo uwouldnt even notice.
My question, when cleaning up an abused engine and deciding to save money over ARx, is when to STOP using MMO.
It lso helps to use it in the gas. It double-teams the engine that way. There are faster "Gas" cleaners, howver.
Originally Posted By: HangerHarley
My question, when cleaning up an abused engine and deciding to save money over ARx, is when to stop using MMO.
MMO is going to take time and mileage to work, if you want faster results then you might want to look at a product called KREEN.
There is a member here who seems to be getting great results with KREEN, his thread is in the Oil Additive Section.
My question, when cleaning up an abused engine and deciding to save money over ARx, is when to stop using MMO.
MMO is going to take time and mileage to work, if you want faster results then you might want to look at a product called KREEN.
There is a member here who seems to be getting great results with KREEN, his thread is in the Oil Additive Section.
i beleive MMO is also FAA approved (i think) which i find interesting, i dont know if any other cleaners like that are.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
I don't think the one's who have tried it are being given credit for their "subjective" experience.
Well, I surely give high marks for butt dyno quotients. It's one of my principle criteria for proving worth of any product.
Measurable, repeatable, and validated results are highly over rated.
Think about it, if there were some testing that could be performed, don't you think that Turtle Wax would perform them? It's surely not for lack of resources.
They don't even have the 4 ball test
Right, but my point is that the results people see from MMO are hard to quantify. Its like the improvements I saw after using Regane - I can't measure them, I just know it worked. This was the first time any PEA based cleaner was used on this car though, so any of them would have produced similar results. Regane just happened to be the easiest to obtain here.
To use another analogue: there are lots of theories in the social science realm that are highly regarded and explain certain human behavior well. They're all "working theories" and can never advance beyond the theory stage because the behavior they explain can't be tested in a lab, or quantified in the real world. Yet they've held up well over time, and in the applied social science fields, they are routinely used as tools to produce results (desired behavior modification).
But people routinely discount social science theories as [censored] too
Meanwhile they're behavior is being unwittingly modified by savvy advertisers and political strategists who borrow heavy from this research and incorporate it into their marketing campaigns or political speeches and platforms.
That is straying way off topic though
-Spyder
Quote:
I don't think the one's who have tried it are being given credit for their "subjective" experience.
Well, I surely give high marks for butt dyno quotients. It's one of my principle criteria for proving worth of any product.
Measurable, repeatable, and validated results are highly over rated.
Think about it, if there were some testing that could be performed, don't you think that Turtle Wax would perform them? It's surely not for lack of resources.
They don't even have the 4 ball test
Right, but my point is that the results people see from MMO are hard to quantify. Its like the improvements I saw after using Regane - I can't measure them, I just know it worked. This was the first time any PEA based cleaner was used on this car though, so any of them would have produced similar results. Regane just happened to be the easiest to obtain here.
To use another analogue: there are lots of theories in the social science realm that are highly regarded and explain certain human behavior well. They're all "working theories" and can never advance beyond the theory stage because the behavior they explain can't be tested in a lab, or quantified in the real world. Yet they've held up well over time, and in the applied social science fields, they are routinely used as tools to produce results (desired behavior modification).
But people routinely discount social science theories as [censored] too
That is straying way off topic though
-Spyder
the only way to truly quantify something like this is to have an accurate scientific measurement before hand. nobody does that, seriously.
Originally Posted By: Lethal1ty17
the only way to truly quantify something like this is to have an accurate scientific measurement before hand. nobody does that, seriously.
Exactly. And I don't think its necessary, in order for joe average car enthusiast, to demonstrate that something worked for him as intended. Most, if not all of us here, have no stake or affiliation with MMO. People are simply posting their own experiences with it, and for those of us desiring similar results or having a similar application in mind, that's good enough.
The only thing that can be objectively quantified here is that those who are strongly opposed (for whatever reasons) to using an additive like MMO, are not going to use it. Their car, their dime. Conversely, our cars, our dime.
-Spyder
the only way to truly quantify something like this is to have an accurate scientific measurement before hand. nobody does that, seriously.
Exactly. And I don't think its necessary, in order for joe average car enthusiast, to demonstrate that something worked for him as intended. Most, if not all of us here, have no stake or affiliation with MMO. People are simply posting their own experiences with it, and for those of us desiring similar results or having a similar application in mind, that's good enough.
The only thing that can be objectively quantified here is that those who are strongly opposed (for whatever reasons) to using an additive like MMO, are not going to use it. Their car, their dime. Conversely, our cars, our dime.
-Spyder
Last edited:
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Quote:
Right, but my point is that the results people see from MMO are hard to quantify. Its like the improvements I saw after using Regane - I can't measure them, I just know it worked. This was the first time any PEA based cleaner was used on this car though, so any of them would have produced similar results. Regane just happened to be the easiest to obtain here.
Sure. I'm just being difficult (it can be a meat grinder in here)
I really don't have anything against the stuff ..especially in fuel.
Unlike oil, fuel ..hmmm..how can I word this without stepping on myself???
Even top tier fuel can manage a few liabilities to it in some instances. Fuel is a "globally managed" commodity, by that I mean mostly generic with some minor distinctions in end vendor additives.
So, there's work to be done for the end user in some cases, your reference to REGANE containing PEA, being a good example. You probably won't see any more MPG with using PEA, but drivability and reduction in knocking ..starting issues ..misdiagnosed piston slap due to CCDI ...etc..etc.
I guess I'd say that there's a sizable minority that can gain benefit from using such agents.
Oil is a different animal ..for me anyway. When stuff like Rislone and MMO started out, the consumer (before the term existed) had choices that were probably ND SAE 20 and ND 30. Even through the 70's the fundamentals of lubricating oils were pretty primitive. Stone knives and bear skins.
Now I can choose from a very broad selection of high quality oils from multiple producers that are so far ahead of typical needs curve it's not even funny.
There will always be exceptions. If you've got some exceptional circumstance, then you take exceptional measures.
What people need to NOT turn that around into ..is that they're getting added benefit when there's no need to begin with.
You can't get above ZERO ..which is where you start (and typically stay ..within some standard deviation), you can only combat negatives.
Right, but my point is that the results people see from MMO are hard to quantify. Its like the improvements I saw after using Regane - I can't measure them, I just know it worked. This was the first time any PEA based cleaner was used on this car though, so any of them would have produced similar results. Regane just happened to be the easiest to obtain here.
Sure. I'm just being difficult (it can be a meat grinder in here)
I really don't have anything against the stuff ..especially in fuel.
Unlike oil, fuel ..hmmm..how can I word this without stepping on myself???
Even top tier fuel can manage a few liabilities to it in some instances. Fuel is a "globally managed" commodity, by that I mean mostly generic with some minor distinctions in end vendor additives.
So, there's work to be done for the end user in some cases, your reference to REGANE containing PEA, being a good example. You probably won't see any more MPG with using PEA, but drivability and reduction in knocking ..starting issues ..misdiagnosed piston slap due to CCDI ...etc..etc.
I guess I'd say that there's a sizable minority that can gain benefit from using such agents.
Oil is a different animal ..for me anyway. When stuff like Rislone and MMO started out, the consumer (before the term existed) had choices that were probably ND SAE 20 and ND 30. Even through the 70's the fundamentals of lubricating oils were pretty primitive. Stone knives and bear skins.
Now I can choose from a very broad selection of high quality oils from multiple producers that are so far ahead of typical needs curve it's not even funny.
There will always be exceptions. If you've got some exceptional circumstance, then you take exceptional measures.
What people need to NOT turn that around into ..is that they're getting added benefit when there's no need to begin with.
You can't get above ZERO ..which is where you start (and typically stay ..within some standard deviation), you can only combat negatives.
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